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If Jon Jones never...

PostPosted: Sat Jan 12, 2019 3:40 am
by PainDog
If Jon Jones had never touched performance enhancing drugs, how good would he be?

Well quite frankly it is impossible to say. What we can do though, is look at Jones’ attributes, both physical and mental, and then identify the methods in which he has success in his performances.

Jones is often said to be the most athletic fighter in the light heavyweight division. More than in almost any other sport the term “athletic” is incredibly vague in MMA. The nature of MMA can equally favor fighters like Tyron Woodley and Yoel Romero who are relatively short and muscular for their weight classes with incredible explosiveness, or tall and lanky fighters with incredible output and stamina like Nate Diaz or Max Holloway.

A fighter like Max Holloway could never fight like Tyron Woodley, and vice versa. One isn’t necessarily more “athletic” than the other, they just exhibit different kinds of athleticism.

If you look at Jones’ performances, he really doesn’t show the explosiveness of a fighter like Yoel Romero or the offensive output of a fighter like Max Holloway.

If you compare Jones’ performances with other fighters at the top of the light heavyweight division, his record would lack any of the explosive knockouts of fighters like Anthony Johnson or even Shogun Rua, there are also no highlights of him with explosive slams and takedowns like the ones DC has landed on fighters like Gustafsson, Henderson, and even heavyweights like Josh Barnett.
His performances also lack the volume strikes and quickness of a fighter like Gustafsson. Gustafsson with his high volume and movement is probably the closest thing the LHW division has to a fighter like Max Holloway or Nate Diaz.

So, in terms of athleticism Jones’ isn’t particularly explosive (at one point he couldn’t even dunk a basketball despite being a 6’4” black guy with ridiculous reach) and he isn’t the quickest fighter and he doesn’t have a tremendous offensive output.

The one physical attribute that he that is superior to all of his competition, is his incredible reach. His long arms and lanky frame are just a product of his nature, unlike explosiveness or stamina, he cannot train his length to get longer. What he does do is use his reach incredibly well.

His distance control and decision making when using his reach is what has made Jones such an incredible fighter. Jones has gotten takedowns on even the best grapplers like Daniel Cormier, but he didn’t get the take downs from outpowering DC, but from using superior position and leverage.
More than any form of athleticism, Jones ability to make the right decisions in a fight considering his physical abilities is what makes him successful.

Do not just take my word for it, please see the videos below:





interestingly Stipe learned nothing from the Jones fight or even the Gustafsson fight




A bit of a note, both Luke Thomas and Robin Black have had negative personal experiences with Jones...yet neither dismiss his performances as just the product of superior athleticism or performance enhancing drugs



Perhaps Jones’ base level athleticism is so poor he could not have performed at the highest level without PEDs. I mean, even many of the physical feats that people have used to highlight his PED improvements such as his deadlifting records, really aren’t that impressive.
A 500lbs deadlift for a man that is a 220lbs professional athlete isn’t really that impressive when you consider there are several Linkers who weigh around 200lbs with deadlifts over 450lbs such as Mikal. I’m 6’1” and weigh somewhere around 200lbs, an overworked family man, and my deadlift is around 400lbs.
Again, perhaps without turinabol, Jones’ athleticism would have been so under par he would not have had any success.
Or perhaps the PEDs haven’t played that big of a role in Jones’ success. That his success would have been the same as it is, even without the PEDs, due to his incredible fight IQ and understanding of his own physical qualities.

Re: If Jon Jones never...

PostPosted: Sat Jan 12, 2019 4:42 am
by philphan
The guy can't even dunk man,

Re: If Jon Jones never...

PostPosted: Sat Jan 12, 2019 7:33 am
by 320IDAVE
I fucken hate the guy why woukd i watch this shit.

I know what he can do and how. Fuck him

Re: If Jon Jones never...

PostPosted: Sat Jan 12, 2019 7:57 am
by bruins2012
320IDAVE wrote:I fucken hate the guy why woukd i watch this shit.

I know what he can do and how. Fuck him



This. But it sounds like Jones would be real fun to drink, smoke, snort coke, and pillage strippers with. :tup:


:P

Re: If Jon Jones never...

PostPosted: Sat Jan 12, 2019 8:53 am
by jblaze
Fail thread he already beat several Brazilians who cheated worse than him. Also weghlifting doesn't translate to athleticism. It gives you strength. Doing things like running up a hill or doing pullups translate to athleticism. I will agree he is a cheating bum and a sociopath.

Re: If Jon Jones never...

PostPosted: Sat Jan 12, 2019 9:17 am
by PainDog
jblaze wrote:Fail thread he already beat several Brazilians who cheated worse than him. Also weghlifting doesn't translate to athleticism. It gives you strength. Doing things like running up a hill or doing pullups translate to athleticism. I will agree he is a cheating bum and a sociopath.


Athleticism is a vague term. However vague it may be I believe most people would agree that weightlifting takes athleticism and improves athleticism.

Strength like other physical capabilities such as speed are all components of athleticism.

The point of the thread is how good Jones would be if he didnt take PEDs.

As well as pointing out Jones isnt winning because he is quicker or stronger than his opponents but rather because he makes better decisions.

Re: If Jon Jones never...

PostPosted: Sat Jan 12, 2019 9:23 am
by dipset52
Image

Re: If Jon Jones never...

PostPosted: Sat Jan 12, 2019 10:00 am
by DeceptaCon
He would have beat Matt Hammill
Lost the first Gus fight
Tapped to Vitor
Lost to Sonnen via feeling his broken toe looking down at it and tapping
Lost the rematch against DC

Re: If Jon Jones never...

PostPosted: Sat Jan 12, 2019 12:19 pm
by PBells
I depends on how you look at PEDs: if you regard them as magical chemicals that can turn an average shlub into a world-beater, then Jon could very well have been an also-ran/can-crusher his entire career. Problem with that argument is if PEDs are that effective, why aren't there more Jon Jones'?

If you regard PEDs as seasoning, per se, then Jon is a high-level fighter regardless whose success at the top could very well be assisted but not augmented.

I just woke up and hope that all makes sense

Re: If Jon Jones never...

PostPosted: Sat Jan 12, 2019 12:42 pm
by ebickmeyer
I remember a post meow made about how he may be using peds to help him cut weight. His cardio and overall output dramatically improved over the years since his early fights.

Re: If Jon Jones never...

PostPosted: Sat Jan 12, 2019 1:04 pm
by Shuck
dipset52 wrote:Image


Image

Re: If Jon Jones never...

PostPosted: Sat Jan 12, 2019 1:33 pm
by philphan
ebickmeyer wrote:I remember a post meow made about how he may be using peds to help him cut weight. His cardio and overall output dramatically improved over the years since his early fights.

Agreed, meow was on to something.

Re: If Jon Jones never...

PostPosted: Sat Jan 12, 2019 9:58 pm
by yoseph
Not only did Jones never get caught with large enough quantities of peds in his system to effect his performance, he also destroyed known abusers of peds who had juice flowing through their veins during the time of their fight.

Re: If Jon Jones never...

PostPosted: Wed Jan 16, 2019 5:41 pm
by YMCA
A lean (and notoriously chicken legged) guy like Jones deadlifting is VERY impressive. A stocky 5’10” Jones at 220-230? Not so much.

He’s got raw athletic talent, and genetics. If he didn’t, his entire family wouldn’t be/have been elite athletes...with or without PEDs.

He’s got great coaches, but he is also very coach able and still growing and adapting as a fighter. Witness his rematches against DC and Gus. Easy, because he exploited their holes and eliminated his mistakes from the previous fights.