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GSP no match for charging gorilla

PostPosted: Wed Jun 13, 2018 4:55 am
by philphan
Two-weight UFC champion Georges St. Pierre no match for charging gorilla
https://www.mmamania.com/2018/6/13/1745 ... ch-gorilla

Former UFC welterweight and middleweight champion Georges St. Pierre has a lot of experience in scary situations, but none of his fight training prepared him for this: he was charged by a gorilla in the jungle. The former champion made no pretense of unnecessary toughness, adopting a submissive posture and ducking out of the way.

This video was taken in Africa seconds after an alpha gorilla charged me. I had to take a submissive posture and get out of his way. One of the most frightening and incredible experiences of my life - even with all the fight training in the world I wouldn’t have been a match!

In the background, the smaller gorillas continue casually playing and wrestling with each other. It’s evident from the video St. Pierre’s fear was justified- unlike the movie ‘“Tarzan”, there is no chance even a lifelong martial artist and athlete like GSP would have against a foe clearly out of his weight class.

St. Pierre has teased a return against a foe more his size, Russian lightweight champion Khabib Nurmagomedov, who, incidentally, grew up wrestling bear cubs in the Caucasus mountains. The fight, if it comes to fruition, won’t solve the age-old question of whether a gorilla would beat a bear, but it might determine the best MMA wrestler in history.

Re: GSP no match for charging gorilla

PostPosted: Wed Jun 13, 2018 7:28 am
by tsarlaider
Did he react like this?

Image

or like this?

Image

Re: GSP no match for charging gorilla

PostPosted: Wed Jun 13, 2018 8:17 am
by PainDog
As far as bears fighting gorillas, it is really going to depend on the species of bear.

The largest wild gorilla ever documented weighed around 600 pounds, the largest wild bear (a polar bear) documented weighed around 2,209 pounds....

Silverback gorillas typically weigh somewhere between 400-450 pounds with there being some average size differences depending on the subspecies of gorilla.

The American black bear is somewhat comparable in size, though they can have higher body weight, of over 500 pounds, after bulking up in the fall.

The gorilla is going to have the higher bite force between the two.

He football shaped head of a gorilla is muscle. Gorillas have enormous sagittal crests where the giant temporalis muscles connect

Image


https://www.skullsunlimited.com/product ... ull-bc-124

http://jeb.biologists.org/content/213/11/1844

The American black bear bite force while not being as powerful as the gorillas are still going to be formidable.


Image
black bear skull notice the regions of the skull where the muscles attatch are smaller than the gorilla

The bears jaws are going to have a larger area than the gorillas due to its jaws forming a muzzle. This would allow the bear bites to damage a larger area of the gorilla than gorillas flatter jaws could on the bear.

Both animals have great physical strength in their limbs. The gorilla is more explosive and will have longer arms. The bear has claws but they are more for digging than inflicting damage.


explosive

Just based on physical attributes I would go with the gorilla....

Re: GSP no match for charging gorilla

PostPosted: Wed Jun 13, 2018 3:03 pm
by psette
PainDog wrote:As far as bears fighting gorillas, it is really going to depend on the species of bear.

The largest wild gorilla ever documented weighed around 600 pounds, the largest wild bear (a polar bear) documented weighed around 2,209 pounds....

Silverback gorillas typically weigh somewhere between 400-450 pounds with there being some average size differences depending on the subspecies of gorilla.

The American black bear is somewhat comparable in size, though they can have higher body weight, of over 500 pounds, after bulking up in the fall.

The gorilla is going to have the higher bite force between the two.

He football shaped head of a gorilla is muscle. Gorillas have enormous sagittal crests where the giant temporalis muscles connect

Image


https://www.skullsunlimited.com/product ... ull-bc-124

http://jeb.biologists.org/content/213/11/1844

The American black bear bite force while not being as powerful as the gorillas are still going to be formidable.


Image
black bear skull notice the regions of the skull where the muscles attatch are smaller than the gorilla

The bears jaws are going to have a larger area than the gorillas due to its jaws forming a muzzle. This would allow the bear bites to damage a larger area of the gorilla than gorillas flatter jaws could on the bear.

Both animals have great physical strength in their limbs. The gorilla is more explosive and will have longer arms. The bear has claws but they are more for digging than inflicting damage.


explosive

Just based on physical attributes I would go with the gorilla....


It's clear you've thought about this a lot, and suspect you've had this whole post saved on your computer, just waiting for an opportunity to use it.

I'm glad you did. We're all a little wiser now.

Re: GSP no match for charging gorilla

PostPosted: Wed Jun 13, 2018 3:53 pm
by DeceptaCon
He finally met an opponent he couldn't hump.

Re: GSP no match for charging gorilla

PostPosted: Wed Jun 13, 2018 4:27 pm
by philphan
psette wrote:
PainDog wrote:As far as bears fighting gorillas, it is really going to depend on the species of bear.

The largest wild gorilla ever documented weighed around 600 pounds, the largest wild bear (a polar bear) documented weighed around 2,209 pounds....

Silverback gorillas typically weigh somewhere between 400-450 pounds with there being some average size differences depending on the subspecies of gorilla.

The American black bear is somewhat comparable in size, though they can have higher body weight, of over 500 pounds, after bulking up in the fall.

The gorilla is going to have the higher bite force between the two.

He football shaped head of a gorilla is muscle. Gorillas have enormous sagittal crests where the giant temporalis muscles connect

Image


https://www.skullsunlimited.com/product ... ull-bc-124

http://jeb.biologists.org/content/213/11/1844

The American black bear bite force while not being as powerful as the gorillas are still going to be formidable.


Image
black bear skull notice the regions of the skull where the muscles attatch are smaller than the gorilla

The bears jaws are going to have a larger area than the gorillas due to its jaws forming a muzzle. This would allow the bear bites to damage a larger area of the gorilla than gorillas flatter jaws could on the bear.

Both animals have great physical strength in their limbs. The gorilla is more explosive and will have longer arms. The bear has claws but they are more for digging than inflicting damage.


explosive

Just based on physical attributes I would go with the gorilla....


I'm glad you did. We're all a little wiser now.

Hell yeah, thanks Paindog. I have read that about 10 times now. Interesting shit man. I love it when you drop knowledge on us. :star: :tup:

Re: GSP no match for charging gorilla

PostPosted: Wed Jun 13, 2018 10:52 pm
by 1098765432
Bear

Re: GSP no match for charging gorilla

PostPosted: Thu Jun 14, 2018 3:31 am
by PainDog
Thank you, gentlemen, for the feedback.

I had not really been thinking about a fight between a bear and a gorilla tough I am sure it is something I have thought about before. I very interested in the biological sciences, and powerful animals have always been particularly intriguing whether they are living animals like a gorilla or a bear or an extinct one like a dinosaur or an Andrewsarchus.

There is a website where people debate animal battles, every sort of match up you could think of, from dinosaurs vs. modern animals to battles between different extinct animals from different time periods like the Smilodon vs. Deinonychus thread below.

http://carnivoraforum.com/topic/10331664/1/

After writing my post yesterday I decided to check out the carnivora forum to see if the black bear vs. gorilla match up had been discussed…and it had with the majority of the votes going towards the black bear.

However, one of the posters kind of swayed some of the others by claiming that the bite force of the gorilla was exaggerated and should be lower than the black bear…maybe even half of the bears bite force.

Now this is not at all what is in line with what has been published on science websites, where the gorilla is usually ranked among the top animals in terms of bite force, and it doesn’t really mesh with common sense in my opinion.

The website below lists the gorilla’s bite force at around 1300psi, which is quite in line with most estimates I have seen.
https://listverse.com/2012/11/05/top-10 ... stroy-you/

As I mentioned in the first post gorillas have enormous jaw muscles. Now with that said not everything that goes into bite force can be explained by looking at one or two muscles, the biomechanics can be quite complicated.

I am not aware of any brutal attacks carried out by gorillas on people, however there have been several by chimpanzees. Chimpanzees which are around ¼ the size of a gorilla have easily bit through the human skulls, bit through the carpal bones in human hands, and have demonstrated the strength to smash through car windshields.

The jaw muscles of a gorilla are not 4x the volume of the jaw muscles of a chimp, rather they would be in excess of ten times the volume of a chimps.

Image
note the size difference in the sagittal crest of the gorilla and chimpanzee

Additionally, gorillas routinely bite through very fibrous plant material. Something that is often ignored is the bite for of herbivores which are likely more powerful than most carnivores. When vegans say humans don’t have the sharp teeth or jaws to eat unprocessed meat…we also don’t have the jaws or teeth to eat unprocessed vegetable matter (note that even the fruit we eat have been selectively bred for thousands of years to make them as human friendly as they are). I would say with confidence that the higher end bite force estimates of the gorilla are going to be more accurate than the lower estimates.

When we consider this fight we also should consider fight IQ. Neither animal is going to do very well in this category.

All of these great imaginary battles between two extraordinarily powerful animals like a triceratops and a T. rex are unlikely to have happened, and match-ups between existing animals even if they live in the same geographical area are unlikely to happen.

Nature plays for keeps and even minor injuries could prove fatal in the wild. A broken bone could mean a debilitating injury that would prevent the animal from hunting and ultimately starving to death, a laceration could lead to infection and ultimately death. Animals generally play it safe and predators tend to go for the weak, old, and sick.

Also, black bears are not the apex predators in their habitat, since their range historically overlapped with grizzly bears. Grizzly bears have even been known to eat black bears.
https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-ne ... y-1354935/

What that means is black bears would be much less likely to confront a challenge than an animal that is an apex predator like a grizzly bear or even a tiger. When you aren’t at the top of the food chain fleeing is always going to be an option.

Gorillas would also be more show than bite. There would be a lot of posturing, tearing down small tress and chest beating, but likely very little actual attacking.

So if they did meet in the wild both would likely make a lot of noise but then go their separate ways.

We would have to somehow train them to fight to see how well they would really match up with each other, which should make the fight more about the physical attributes each animal brings to the table.

When considering the physical attributes, like I said in the first post I would have to give it to the gorilla. If the gorilla was able to appropriately use in physical abilities could get behind the bear, use its long arms and fingers to actually be able to grip and hold on to the bear, and then use its powerful jaws to inflict damage.

Bears usually use their arms to set up their jaws when fighting. Again, if the gorilla understood how to use its physical attributes, it would have a greater range of flexibility in its shoulders than the bear.


grizzlies fighting, the grizzly is the size of a gorilla and a black bear combined

I don’t think an actual gorilla fight has been caught on camera…just some brief halfhearted conflicts in zoos.


If the gorilla didn’t use its attributes well and just charged into the bear, I could see the bear winning. The bear would have the height advantage and has the longer jaws so would be easier to deliver bites. Then again to get to the vital areas of the gorilla could be difficult since its head, neck, and shoulders are so heavily muscled.

Either way it’s something that isn’t going to happen, but is interesting to think about.

Re: GSP no match for charging gorilla

PostPosted: Thu Jun 14, 2018 4:32 am
by bruins2012
I believe GSP is just being modest. From most eye-witness accounts, once the gorilla caught a glimpse of GSP and recognized him as the current MW, WW, and future LW Champion of the world, the gorilla stopped dead in his tracks and slowly backed away and was cautious not to make any sudden movements that would have triggered the GOATs instinct to attack with ruthless aggression any living being that showed fear or weakness in his presence.

Pillar Bruins2012 tells no lies. :tup:

:P

Re: GSP no match for charging gorilla

PostPosted: Thu Jun 14, 2018 9:03 am
by 1098765432
a grizzly would kill any gorilla that ever lived if you locked them in a cage and they had to go at it.Grizzlys kill for a living and are enormously more powerful.No contest.Black bear is more evenly matched and a polar bear just like a grizzly would win.

Re: GSP no match for charging gorilla

PostPosted: Thu Jun 14, 2018 3:06 pm
by defenceman1845
Spoiler:
the bear wins

Spoiler:
Khabib wins

Spoiler:
Fedor is the true Best Ever Against Realanimals

Re: GSP no match for charging gorilla

PostPosted: Fri Jun 15, 2018 4:25 am
by Oldtoby420
Grizzly / Kodiak / Polar Bear > Silverback Gorilla

Would take that bet all day with top tier of each animal going at it. One is one of the largest apex predators on earth that hunts & kills it's prey with multiple killing tools & no natural predators the other is well tbh don't need to go on to bother explaining to know which of the two would win. Ones a predator & well ones just not.

Also there's bigger Hybrid Grizzly / Polar Bears out there then any of those species that would make a Silver Back Gorrilla it's bitch.

Re: GSP no match for charging gorilla

PostPosted: Fri Jun 15, 2018 4:12 pm
by PainDog
gorilla > without much question....sun bear, sloth bear, spectacled bear, panda...the following are more competitive match ups American black bear, Asiatic black bear

and I agree a gorilla is no match for a larger brown bear or polar bear...but gorillas would still be > than most bear species....

Re: GSP no match for charging gorilla

PostPosted: Fri Jun 15, 2018 4:48 pm
by philphan

Re: GSP no match for charging gorilla

PostPosted: Thu Jun 21, 2018 2:26 pm
by hawdrigoh
"I had to take a submissive posture"


Image