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Re: The Official Political Thread.

Postby DreadLobster » Sat May 30, 2020 11:45 pm

I mean... the protests aren’t about one guy.

There were also two other cases very very recently, which I’m not as familiar with and don’t know the details of enough to debate, but they were definitely big stories too. Ohio’s had some crazy cases. Tamir Rice comes to mind. No one ever got punished for that one did they?

This has been an on going problem longer than anyone on earth has been alive.

This still isn’t as big as 1968 or 1992 in terms of property damage or loss of life. (yet)

And not a whole hell of a lot has changed. I think people are fucking sick of it.
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Re: The Official Political Thread.

Postby PBells » Sun May 31, 2020 12:04 am

DreadLobster wrote:Ohio’s had some crazy cases. Tamir Rice comes to mind. No one ever got punished for that one did they?


The officer involved in the shooting got fired on a technicality 2 years later. Lie of omission on his application, he was deemed emotionally unfit by another PD and didn't disclose that to the city of Cleveland.
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Re: The Official Political Thread.

Postby TFlock » Sun May 31, 2020 1:38 am

PBells wrote:Just got an emergency alert to avoid downtown Columbus due to protests. What do protests in Ohio do for Minnesota?

social media is a wonderful thing isn't it? access to like minded people who can form a mass protest around the country just through some types and clicks and here we are... back before social media people didn't have access to all of the news of every problem in the world forced down their throats. cops could kill black people and nobody would have video of it to share with the rest of the world. crazy how the world has changed that fast... :nerd:
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Re: The Official Political Thread.

Postby PBells » Sun May 31, 2020 2:22 am

DreadLobster wrote:I mean... the protests aren’t about one guy.


Right, but then I read about protestors here smashing up restaurants, setting a construction site on fire, and pepper-spraying black city council members and wonder what those do in the fights against police brutality and discrimination. Maybe I’m just being a sperg :?:

(Mayor) Ginther said he believed racism “is a public health and safety crisis” and he wanted to see a more equitable city, but “we are now at a point that we can no longer tell who is protesting for change and an end to racism and who has only chaos and destruction in mind.”

The city of Columbus remains under curfew from 10 p.m. to 6 a.m.
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Re: The Official Political Thread.

Postby DreadLobster » Sun May 31, 2020 3:21 am

I didn't mean to imply that I agree with everything. People are idiots.

Burning bridges with potential allies is pretty fuckin stupid.

I'm not entirely sure what the end goal is but certainly they'd probably need some politicians to make it happen...
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Re: The Official Political Thread.

Postby PainDog » Sun May 31, 2020 7:28 am

DreadLobster wrote:I like your approach.

There are racists who are hateful, and there are racists who are just ignorant. I think most fall into the latter. When people treat them the same all it does is drive the wedge deeper.

Racism has been the norm for millennia. It’s ingrained in us. And it’s EVERYWHERE.

People look at the Muslim world and say stupid bullshit about how they’ve been at war for a thousand years... As if the rest of the world has been at peace?

As if Europe didn’t almost completely destroy itself twice in the last century. As if Europe wasn’t full of different ethnic groups and religious sects that have murdered each other for centuries.

The thought seems to have honestly not occurred to most people.

Our species fucking sucks at empathy.


Muslim world, Arab world, and Middle East are three terms which often get used interchangeably but are quite different.

Muslim world applies to any Muslim majority country which you can find in different regions of the world. Using Muslim world would be equivalent of using the term Christendom and refer to places as different as Finland, Uganda, and Samoa.
It is so general it is meaningless.

The Middle East can mean different things depending on who is defining it. Sometimes it includes the Caucuses sometimes it doesn’t, sometimes it includes all of North Africa others times only Egypt.

However variable the term is it is still useful since it can apply to regional issues which include more than one ethnic group. Iran for example would be Middle Eastern but not Arab.

The Arab world are the Arabic speaking countries across the Middle East and North Africa.

When people think of the Middle East as a location of endless wars and ethnic conflict they do so through the lens presented by the Western news and entertainment media. Making it seem like the Middle East is cut off from the rest of the world an endless desert and rural which is not at all the case and has never been the case. Most of the population lives along the Mediterranean coast which has a similar climate as the European Mediterranean or the fertile regions of Northern Iraq and Iran.

If we just look at the Arab world it has historically been more stable than Europe and historically more religiously tolerant. If you look at maps dating from around 600AD to 1990 there is much more variability in Europe than there is in the Middle East and North Africa.

Most of the issues which currently afflict the Middle East and North Africa are directly related to Western colonialism and imperialism.

Prior to colonialism Christians, Jews, and other religious minorities made up a larger percentage of the population than they do today. After colonialism, when as per the western narrative the Middle East was brought into modernity, the demographics started to change, minority populations dwindled and sectarian violence increased.

At present every country in the Arab world, in particular those that have a greater interest for the West such as Egypt and the Gulf, are directed by America.

Not a single country in the Arab world is producing any kind of industrial equipment. Every kind of major development is carried out by awarding contracts to Western companies.The oil and gas industry, the major industry for the “rich” Arabs of the Gulf, is exclusively controlled by western companies. If there would be an attempt to award a contract to a Russian or Chinese company there would likely be a coup to change the leadership or sanctions imposed like in Iran or both.

The Arabs aided the allied forces to help bring an end to the Ottoman empire after WWI. They were promised by the allies France and the UK that they would be able to have their own Arab nation. This of course was a ruse and the very famous Sykes – Picot agreement had already set plans for dividing the former Ottoman colonies between the English and French.

Now a 100 years later many Arabs want Turkish influence to grow. At least the Turks are a regional nation and the effects of their actions would have direct impact on Turkey. America can encourage endless wars and not really deal with the consequences.

I am not saying there are not internal issues or that there has never been sectarian violence. There of course has been, there are examples in the Ottoman empire especially as the empire was failing, there has been sectarian issues in Iraq, issues between the Fatimid Caliphate and the Abbasids and Ayoubids and so on. But at present the biggest factor against stability and progress is American and western imperialism.
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Re: The Official Political Thread.

Postby DreadLobster » Sun May 31, 2020 11:21 am

^ All of that is :tup:

I'm embarrassed to admit that I was probably close to thirty before I started to realize just how over simplified and propagandized our country's version of history (and of reality in general) was. Its an absolute fantasy. But the average American doesn't look into things beyond what they learned in school. In general I think we all grew up assuming history class would've been just as reliable as our math class.

I read a book called "America's War for the Greater Middle East" not too long ago... it's a super critical take on US policy towards that whole region, from North and East Africa all the way over to Pakistan. I was already aware of how Britain, France and us carved up the old Ottoman Empire, and how we helped overthrow the Iranian government in the 50s... I knew the basics. They didn't teach ANY of that in school. But one of the main things that stood out to me was how just how similar it all was to everything I've read about colonialism in Africa and Latin America. Which they also didn't really teach.

There's a quote from George Kennan from after WW2, about how the US had a tiny percentage of the population but over 50% of the wealth, and he straight up said the state department's goal was to "devise a pattern of relationships which will permit us to maintain this position of disparity without positive detriment to our national security."

Its crazy how similar the playbook is to the previous few hundred years of imperialism. We basically set up colonies in everything but name, all over the planet.
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Re: The Official Political Thread.

Postby Shuck » Sun May 31, 2020 11:26 am

There is no doubt in my mind that this cop was a mole, planted to ignite this chaos that was primed to explode.. just like several other under cover cops / agents that have been filmed starting these riots..

Wts, the "Mole Cop" who did the job should get either life or execution imo .. but all the rioting, looting, is purely disgusting

@Bells, Trump called out the major platforms like Twitter & FB for their proven censorship towards conservative media way before this "fact checking" narrative came out.. their bias has been proven, Zuckberg had a senate hearing regarding it over a month ago.. amazn how cracking down on free speech censorship is spun into the exact opposite

@Pain, not surprised you didn't mention the prejudice towards Jews on Link.. the biggest minority on here seems to get the most hate & nobody speaks of it.. & if you think all of Linkers are as Racist as Kop then you haven't been paying attention.. Ill go on the record to say I have zero ill will towards him or any other Linker, just feel pity for anybody w/that mindset.

...

Martial Law is unfolding & if anyone thinks this wasn't planned then you haven't been paying enough attention
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Re: The Official Political Thread.

Postby DreadLobster » Sun May 31, 2020 11:35 am

Shuck wrote:@Bells, Trump called out the major platforms like Twitter & FB for their proven censorship towards conservative media way before this "fact checking" narrative came out.. their bias has been proven, Zuckberg had a senate hearing regarding it over a month ago.. amazn how cracking down on free speech is turned into the exact opposite

Yeah... but they're not the government. They're allowed to have bias. There are no laws against bias. There are no laws against fact checking. There are no laws against them banning whoever they want for any reason.

There is a law against the government disallowing them from saying what they want. Its called the first amendment.

Martial Law is unfolding & if anyone thinks this wasn't planned then you haven't been paying enough attention


Who do you suppose planned it and why? I'm not sure where people stand, I don't wanna put words in your mouth.

Maybe I'm misinterpreting the first part, what you said to pbells... but it sounds as if you think the government intervention of social media is justified. If I thought the government was implementing a long planned martial law I'd be very alarmed to see them moving in to take control over the biggest and most easily accessible form of mass communication...
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Re: The Official Political Thread.

Postby PBells » Sun May 31, 2020 11:41 am

First Amendment only applies to the federal government which Twitter, Facebook, and etc. do not belong.

If they're so butthurt about private businesses "censoring" them then they should make their own platforms like what they told Democrats do back when the roles were reversed as Dread mentioned. :hand:
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Re: The Official Political Thread.

Postby Shuck » Sun May 31, 2020 12:06 pm

DreadLobster wrote:
Shuck wrote:@Bells, Trump called out the major platforms like Twitter & FB for their proven censorship towards conservative media way before this "fact checking" narrative came out.. their bias has been proven, Zuckberg had a senate hearing regarding it over a month ago.. amazn how cracking down on free speech is turned into the exact opposite

Yeah... but they're not the government. They're allowed to have bias. There are no laws against bias. There are no laws against fact checking. There are no laws against them banning whoever they want for any reason.

There is a law against the government disallowing them from saying what they want. Its called the first amendment.

Martial Law is unfolding & if anyone thinks this wasn't planned then you haven't been paying enough attention


Who do you suppose planned it and why? I'm not sure where people stand, I don't wanna put words in your mouth.

Maybe I'm misinterpreting the first part, what you said to pbells... but it sounds as if you think the government intervention of social media is justified. If I thought the government was implementing a long planned martial law I'd be very alarmed to see them moving in to take control over the biggest and most easily accessible form of mass communication...


I agree that a private company is permitted to do as it pleases as long as they aren't hiding their clear intent.. FB deny's favoring the Left (which it is clearly doing).. So if you're labeling your self as a free speech platform & setting up your algorithms to completly contrast that statement then I have an issue with it.. & have no issues w/Trump cracking down on a Publicly traded companies like these two that are clearly going against what they claim they stand for

To say I know who planned it or there exact intent would be a lie, I don't.. but its obvious to me that this is orchestrated, just like the Plandemic (I def believe there is a virus but believe it was man made, blown out of proportion to instill fear & permit additional "security" measures to be inacted).. This is all part of a big plan, not sure if its to bring in some new world order hoopla, crash the economy or what, I don't know.. but Imo Trump is solid but that doesn't mean the people around him are... Just like 9/11, it took years to see the reason behind the false flag, I believe it will be the same here.. maybe this shit show will turn into a positive, no clue, but this world has been fucked up & on the wrong course for quite sometime.. so hitting the reset button may not be such a bad thing
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Re: The Official Political Thread.

Postby DreadLobster » Sun May 31, 2020 12:27 pm

Shuck wrote:I agree that a private company is permitted to do as it pleases as long as they aren't hiding their clear intent.. FB deny's favoring the Left (which it is clearly doing).. So if you're labeling your self as a free speech platform & setting up your algorithms to completly contrast that statement then I have an issue with it.. & have no issues w/Trump cracking down on a Publicly traded companies like these two that are clearly going against what they claim they stand for

Again... this is perfectly. fucking. legal.

For instance, guys like Alex Jones and Mike Adams would have you believe they're exposing the truth, but really they're just trying to get you to buy supplements. 100% legal (aside from the lead I think).

But on a more broad scale: see almost every company on earth. They all have slogans and blast you with advertisements about how much they care about you, the customer. You seem like a skeptic, so obviously you see that that is almost entirely bullshit. They're not charities.

Publicly traded doesn't mean publicly owned. They have to disclose finances and shit, not marketing strategies. If you don't like their politics don't buy their stocks. Liberals have been railing against Citizen's United for YEARS and now, in the one arena where they're boxed out, "conservatives" are trying to tell you that corporations don't get to have a political voice. :lol:

To say I know who planned it or there exact intent would be a lie, I don't.. but its obvious to me that this is orchestrated, just like the Plandemic (I def believe there is a virus but believe it was man made, blown out of proportion to instill fear & permit additional "security" measures to be inacted).. This is all part of a big plan, not sure if its to bring in some new world order hoopla, crash the economy or what, I don't know.. but Imo Trump is solid but that doesn't mean the people around him are... Just like 9/11, it took years to see the reason behind the false flag, I believe it will be the same here.. maybe this shit show will turn into a positive, no clue, but this world has been fucked up & on the wrong course for quite sometime.. so hitting the reset button may not be such a bad thing


Oh.

So its "them."
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Re: The Official Political Thread.

Postby Shuck » Sun May 31, 2020 12:39 pm

DreadLobster wrote:
Shuck wrote:I agree that a private company is permitted to do as it pleases as long as they aren't hiding their clear intent.. FB deny's favoring the Left (which it is clearly doing).. So if you're labeling your self as a free speech platform & setting up your algorithms to completly contrast that statement then I have an issue with it.. & have no issues w/Trump cracking down on a Publicly traded companies like these two that are clearly going against what they claim they stand for

Again... this is perfectly. fucking. legal.

For instance, guys like Alex Jones and Mike Adams would have you believe they're exposing the truth, but really they're just trying to get you to buy supplements. 100% legal (aside from the lead I think).

But on a more broad scale: see almost every company on earth. They all have slogans and blast you with advertisements about how much they care about you, the customer. You seem like a skeptic, so obviously you see that that is almost entirely bullshit. They're not charities.

Publicly traded doesn't mean publicly owned. They have to disclose finances and shit, not marketing strategies. If you don't like their politics don't buy their stocks. Liberals have been railing against Citizen's United for YEARS and now, in the one arena where they're boxed out, "conservatives" are trying to tell you that corporations don't get to have a political voice. :lol:

To say I know who planned it or there exact intent would be a lie, I don't.. but its obvious to me that this is orchestrated, just like the Plandemic (I def believe there is a virus but believe it was man made, blown out of proportion to instill fear & permit additional "security" measures to be inacted).. This is all part of a big plan, not sure if its to bring in some new world order hoopla, crash the economy or what, I don't know.. but Imo Trump is solid but that doesn't mean the people around him are... Just like 9/11, it took years to see the reason behind the false flag, I believe it will be the same here.. maybe this shit show will turn into a positive, no clue, but this world has been fucked up & on the wrong course for quite sometime.. so hitting the reset button may not be such a bad thing


Oh.

So its "them."


FB, Twitter & Youtube are not normal private companies they are practically Monopolies.. Here's an answer that sums up my views on it

These companies have a de facto monopoly - at that point, the "private company" argument no longer flies.

I'm normally against anti-discrimination laws, but if you're the one and only grocery shop in town, you shouldn't have the right to refuse service to people because of their political views, race, gender or religion. If you have a monopoly, you should have an obligation not to discriminate.

Likewise, if Youtube, Facebook, Twitter, etc. are number one at their respective things, they should be treated like public utilities rather than private companies. In fact, given how much federal funding Silicion Valley got…

Also, Youtube, Facebook, Twitter, etc. are PLATFORMS, not publishers - they are not responsible for what gets shared on their platforms.
If you can pick and choose between whose stuff you want to see, you are a publisher - and are therefore liable for the stuff you publish.
They cannot have it both ways. At least, they should not be allowed to have it both ways.


did I ever mention I knew who is "them"?

During an investigation of a murder scene you don't need to know the suspect to know a muder occurred.
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Re: The Official Political Thread.

Postby DreadLobster » Sun May 31, 2020 1:14 pm

Shuck wrote:FB, Twitter & Youtube are not normal private companies they are practically Monopolies.. Here's an answer that sums up my views on it
These companies have a de facto monopoly - at that point, the "private company" argument no longer flies.

I'm normally against anti-discrimination laws, but if you're the one and only grocery shop in town, you shouldn't have the right to refuse service to people because of their political views, race, gender or religion. If you have a monopoly, you should have an obligation not to discriminate.

Likewise, if Youtube, Facebook, Twitter, etc. are number one at their respective things, they should be treated like public utilities rather than private companies. In fact, given how much federal funding Silicion Valley got…

Also, Youtube, Facebook, Twitter, etc. are PLATFORMS, not publishers - they are not responsible for what gets shared on their platforms.
If you can pick and choose between whose stuff you want to see, you are a publisher - and are therefore liable for the stuff you publish.
They cannot have it both ways. At least, they should not be allowed to have it both ways.

I would be 100% ok with the government going after social media companies for the myriad of LAWS that they're breaking. Anti trust laws and monopoly laws are a good thing. I don't see how that legally justifies literally silencing them in the meantime though.

They put a fact check and a warning label next to Trump's tweet. They didn't silence ANYTHING, but they are being told they aren't allowed to say what they want.

The last part, about publishers vs platforms, is exactly the justification they're trying to use, repealing their section 230 immunity. They being in this case Trump, Gaetz, Hawley, etc...

First, I'll say that just because a hypothetical legal justification exists doesn't mean it is right. One could argue that the decency act, of which that section was a part, is already an encroachment on the first amendment. It is by every definition a censorship law. So using a censorship law to justify further censoring isn't really the most reassuring way to explain my fears away. Apply similar logic to any gun law and I'm sure you can see why I think the GOP is full of shit. They would never stand for it.

So... I'm aware a justification exists, I'm just pointing out how ass backwards it is from their supposed principles.

Second... if they repeal the immunity of these giant corporations...

Do they just go out of business because of all the law suits?

The other option is the government steps in to regulate... Now the fucking government itself is the moderator? That means government written terms of service. What happens when the next party comes into power... now the terms of service change. If people are crying bias now, when its controlled by a business... can you imagine what the outcry will be like when its politicians rewriting the rules every few months? Can you imagine a government bureaucracy trying to keep up with the changing technology? Try to imagine the reality of how shitty this will be in practice.

Its a disaster.

This is a foot in the door towards ending the free internet that we mostly have. This specific, purposeful, dangerous misrepresentation of what the first amendment is makes it a little easier every time they want to push further. If you think it stops with just the current giants I'm curious as to why.

did I ever mention I knew who is "them"?

During an investigation of a murder scene you don't need to know the suspect to know a muder occurred.


If you're investigating a murder, and there's massive inconsistencies in someone's story, you should question their motivations.

This is why I keep bringing up the hypocrisy in regards to the fairness doctrine, 2nd amendment, etc. The republicans are outing themselves.
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Re: The Official Political Thread.

Postby willmma » Sun May 31, 2020 1:29 pm

I don't believe for a minute that the killing of Floyd was planned by "them" for a specific purpose.

But, some reactions to it are planned.

I mean the outrage and protests were unplanned spontaneous reactions.

The looting is not planned or organized but it is deliberate. People don't loot Louis Vuitton because they're angry at police brutality. They do it because they want to take advantage of the situation and steal some expensive goods.

Then we start getting the organized and planned reaction, the media messaging both on the left and on the right.

The right is better at it, and the looting makes it too easy.

Imho, this is the best thing that could have happened to Trump, folks like KOP (who I wish was still around and contributing) whose support for Trump waned, will be invigorated by the waves of black protesters burning and smashing cities and businesses and looting.

Trump can play up racial divisions to motivate the base. Instead of urging calm, he says to start shooting.

People are not talking about 100,000 Americans who died as a result of Trump's incompetence. they are talking about black looters.
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