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Re: Obama vs. McCain *Poll

Postby agonzalez1 » Thu Oct 23, 2008 9:13 pm

detfilteg wrote:
agonzalez1 wrote:
I've never had any problem with the idea of an Obama presidency, I just disagree with everything he stands for - it will be a push away from personal liberty, responsibility, independence and self-motivation. When the solution to your problems is the government's benefits, the gov't's assurance of a job, the gov't's assurance of retirement, what is the motivation to go out and produce? to innovate?


I do not think that McCain will give us more personal liberty in the end, and our independence has been an issue for far longer than now. I do not need my President to motivate me to go out and do what I do for a living. I motivate myself, not anyone else but me. You are suggesting that Obama will push us away from these things, but that is suggesting that McCain will push us toward these things. If you are self-motivated by McCain as President, then how does that not give you the "cult" mentality that the Obama followers have?


Are you sure you're not an asian kickboxer? that was deep, making me think pretty hard about it. i suppose you could say that I'm an "anti cult-of-personality". I see the impact that Obama is putting on people. Is it positive? To many, yes. But as I've said time and again, it is because of that american idol adoration and not really looking at the issues. Obama's presidency would be accompanied by the most liberal leaders of the House and the Senate. If that isn't a blank slate, I dont know what is. Bush was ridiculed as his vote was (falsely) attributed to being "the guy you'd have a beer with". People want change, but is not this same mentality pervading the process yet again?

McCain has voted down taxes, he has voted - and written - legislation for comprehensive immigration reform, campaign finance reform. Immigration reform (which i support, the border does need to be closed, but we can't just deport 20million people) would legalize citizens, have them pay their due, then allow them to not have to hide (as the population is becoming more and more hispanic anyways) and let them have at making a life for themselves. Cutting capital gains taxes, income taxes, increasing child credits...all this would help to increase jobs, stimulate the economy and help to get us out of this mess.

It is easy to be cynical. But we know McCain's record on things...we dont know it about Obama. With Pelosi and Reid at the helm, with the holding up of Bush's final judicial appointments and the possibility of 2 Supreme court nominations..you can be sure I'll be voting for McCain...well, I did, yesterday.
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Re: Obama vs. McCain *Poll

Postby detfilteg » Thu Oct 23, 2008 9:27 pm

agonzalez1 wrote:
detfilteg wrote:
agonzalez1 wrote:
I've never had any problem with the idea of an Obama presidency, I just disagree with everything he stands for - it will be a push away from personal liberty, responsibility, independence and self-motivation. When the solution to your problems is the government's benefits, the gov't's assurance of a job, the gov't's assurance of retirement, what is the motivation to go out and produce? to innovate?


I do not think that McCain will give us more personal liberty in the end, and our independence has been an issue for far longer than now. I do not need my President to motivate me to go out and do what I do for a living. I motivate myself, not anyone else but me. You are suggesting that Obama will push us away from these things, but that is suggesting that McCain will push us toward these things. If you are self-motivated by McCain as President, then how does that not give you the "cult" mentality that the Obama followers have?


Are you sure you're not an asian kickboxer? that was deep, making me think pretty hard about it. i suppose you could say that I'm an "anti cult-of-personality". I see the impact that Obama is putting on people. Is it positive? To many, yes. But as I've said time and again, it is because of that american idol adoration and not really looking at the issues. Obama's presidency would be accompanied by the most liberal leaders of the House and the Senate. If that isn't a blank slate, I dont know what is. Bush was ridiculed as his vote was (falsely) attributed to being "the guy you'd have a beer with". People want change, but is not this same mentality pervading the process yet again?

McCain has voted down taxes, he has voted - and written - legislation for comprehensive immigration reform, campaign finance reform. Immigration reform (which i support, the border does need to be closed, but we can't just deport 20million people) would legalize citizens, have them pay their due, then allow them to not have to hide (as the population is becoming more and more hispanic anyways) and let them have at making a life for themselves. Cutting capital gains taxes, income taxes, increasing child credits...all this would help to increase jobs, stimulate the economy and help to get us out of this mess.

It is easy to be cynical. But we know McCain's record on things...we dont know it about Obama. With Pelosi and Reid at the helm, with the holding up of Bush's final judicial appointments and the possibility of 2 Supreme court nominations..you can be sure I'll be voting for McCain...well, I did, yesterday.



I agree with you that having that 60 vote garuntee is a bit dangerous to have, and as I mentioned before this is a very critical time for America to make a good choice. To me the only problem is that I see no good choice. You wrote upon immigration, finance, and tax reform which I agree all need work right now. Then again I have this weird part of me that wonders why we cannot get rid of the income tax, because I have heard many options that would negate the need for this yet no one has been elected that has had this stance on the issue. I was watching Palin on TV at lunch today and one thing she said was "John McCain's tax plan will let you keep more of your money!" She said it like a good thing. Why can't I keep all of my money? I earn it, and you spend it on all these wars (terrorism, drugs, democracy around the world) that I have no interest in. Immigration does have an impact on my life, and this is probably where we agree most.

I was hoping you could point me in a direction to perhaps look for McCain's policy on giving us more personal freedom as Americans, but alas this did not occur. This is because I do not think McCain has a policy on this. I do not think that our personal freedom's will get any better unless you move to another country, and that really hurts me to say being an American. Unfortunately with the way that the world currently is, it will probably be our grandchildren or their children that will end up having to revolt against a government that has gotten way too big for itself and holds too much power. We must not forget that this land is for the people, not the government. It is our RIGHT to stand up against it when it hinders our lives and freedom.
wilfred wrote:We all have to make sacrifices, Ryan. Like the story of Jesus Christ. I'm sure the Roman soldiers wanted to hang out at the Pantheon and stare at tits all day, but they knew they had a duty to kill Jesus.
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Re: Obama vs. McCain *Poll

Postby agonzalez1 » Thu Oct 23, 2008 9:31 pm

Sorry to let you down, lol.

I agree with you that the choice isn't optimal...but the choice has to be made.

I agree that income taxes are for the birds...i support the Fair Tax, which Huckabee did and Chuck Norris.

The passing of the 850 Billion dollar bailout bill = Taxation without Representation
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Re: Obama vs. McCain *Poll

Postby detfilteg » Thu Oct 23, 2008 9:33 pm

agonzalez1 wrote:Sorry to let you down, lol.

I agree with you that the choice isn't optimal...but the choice has to be made.

I agree that income taxes are for the birds...i support the Fair Tax, which Huckabee did and Chuck Norris.



You my friend did not let me down. It is the leaders of this country that let me down, and on a more consistent basis as time goes along it seems. The choice does have to be made, no doubt. I just hope that in the end whoever does get into office does not keep this downward spiral in action.
wilfred wrote:We all have to make sacrifices, Ryan. Like the story of Jesus Christ. I'm sure the Roman soldiers wanted to hang out at the Pantheon and stare at tits all day, but they knew they had a duty to kill Jesus.
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Re: Obama vs. McCain *Poll

Postby Jinzo » Thu Oct 23, 2008 9:38 pm

detfilteg wrote:I agree with you that having that 60 vote garuntee is a bit dangerous to have, and as I mentioned before this is a very critical time for America to make a good choice. To me the only problem is that I see no good choice. You wrote upon immigration, finance, and tax reform which I agree all need work right now. Then again I have this weird part of me that wonders why we cannot get rid of the income tax, because I have heard many options that would negate the need for this yet no one has been elected that has had this stance on the issue. I was watching Palin on TV at lunch today and one thing she said was "John McCain's tax plan will let you keep more of your money!" She said it like a good thing. Why can't I keep all of my money? I earn it, and you spend it on all these wars (terrorism, drugs, democracy around the world) that I have no interest in. Immigration does have an impact on my life, and this is probably where we agree most.


We were fine before the 16th amendment was ratified on Feb 1913. Keep in mind that same year the Federal Reserve Act was also passed and signed by Woordrow Wilson. I believe these 2 acts go hand in hand. To keep the Federal Reserve running the government needed money, what could be better than taxing it's citizens and to pay for the Federal Reserve.

Since America became independent in 1776 we were fine without income taxes, we were fine without The Federal Reserve why did we need it all of a sudden in 1913? To make a small number of individuals rich. We surrived on small tarrifs and sales tax.

I would love to keep all my hard earned money that I made. Instead it's used on this stupid Iraq war, and useless government programs.
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Re: Obama vs. McCain *Poll

Postby handgrenadejumper » Thu Oct 23, 2008 10:00 pm

Jinzo wrote:
detfilteg wrote:I agree with you that having that 60 vote garuntee is a bit dangerous to have, and as I mentioned before this is a very critical time for America to make a good choice. To me the only problem is that I see no good choice. You wrote upon immigration, finance, and tax reform which I agree all need work right now. Then again I have this weird part of me that wonders why we cannot get rid of the income tax, because I have heard many options that would negate the need for this yet no one has been elected that has had this stance on the issue. I was watching Palin on TV at lunch today and one thing she said was "John McCain's tax plan will let you keep more of your money!" She said it like a good thing. Why can't I keep all of my money? I earn it, and you spend it on all these wars (terrorism, drugs, democracy around the world) that I have no interest in. Immigration does have an impact on my life, and this is probably where we agree most.


We were fine before the 16th amendment was ratified on Feb 1913. Keep in mind that same year the Federal Reserve Act was also passed and signed by Woordrow Wilson. I believe these 2 acts go hand in hand. To keep the Federal Reserve running the government needed money, what could be better than taxing it's citizens and to pay for the Federal Reserve.

Since America became independent in 1776 we were fine without income taxes, we were fine without The Federal Reserve why did we need it all of a sudden in 1913? To make a small number of individuals rich. We surrived on small tarrifs and sales tax.

I would love to keep all my hard earned money that I made. Instead it's used on this stupid Iraq war, and useless government programs.


I think we can all agree that keeping are money would be the best situation we could all hope for.
Not to use this a lead in, but for me, i believe in the republic that once was america, i believe that we should once again be managed at a state level, and their would be no need for large government to interupt my daily life with it's federal tax and even federal laws(some). I personaly believe that the States should decide individualy what they feel is best. And that at it's core is why i am voting for McCain over Obama, i dont' need more government.
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Re: Obama vs. McCain *Poll

Postby Jinzo » Thu Oct 23, 2008 10:11 pm

The smaller the government the better, but would Obama bring in more government? Under Bush there was more government then we ever had before. The freedom act (sure wire tap me why don't you), also we now have stake in some big companies that were about to burst. I really don't believe my party when we say we want smaller government they have't proven that to me. In addition when Clinton went to office he only needed half of the white house staff compared to Bush Sr and current Bush. Now we have all these new positions created from thin air that we didn't need.

I would love to go back to the early days. The government should be there to enforce and THATS IT, STAY OUT OF OUR LIVES.
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Re: Obama vs. McCain *Poll

Postby handgrenadejumper » Thu Oct 23, 2008 10:19 pm

Jinzo wrote:The smaller the government the better, but would Obama bring in more government? Under Bush there was more government then we ever had before. The freedom act (sure wire tap me why don't you), also we now have stake in some big companies that were about to burst. I really don't believe my party when we say we want smaller government they have't proven that to me. In addition when Clinton went to office he only needed half of the white house staff compared to Bush Sr and current Bush. Now we have all these new positions created from thin air that we didn't need.


True Jinzo, but for me that question at it's heart is why we vote in the first place. For me i choose to believe the canidate. john McCain says he is for smaller government, and i can see that by the way he votes, the way he has tried to reform the government we currently have. And the same goes for Palin, she has reformed her own party in her state. Yeah we could sit here and say, no one knows, but where does that get us, it's like the saying "shit, or get off the pot".

And for the record, back when it was Bush V Gore, i supported Gore, i thought he would have been the better leader. I don't believe much in what bush has "accomplished" with his 8 years, but thast over now, and i'd rather have someone in office that i know what i'm getting, than someone who to be completly honest scares the shit out of me with his socialist ideals.
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Re: Obama vs. McCain *Poll

Postby groundzero » Thu Oct 23, 2008 10:27 pm

here it is the kicker the question to end all questions do we really want four more years of bush? cause thats exactly what we will get with mccain and god forbid the 72 year old man dies and palin becomes president
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Re: Obama vs. McCain *Poll

Postby agonzalez1 » Thu Oct 23, 2008 10:31 pm

groundzero wrote:here it is the kicker the question to end all questions do we really want four more years of bush? cause thats exactly what we will get with mccain and god forbid the 72 year old man dies and palin becomes president


Don't you pay attention :(

Obama = Bush-In-Training
http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/10/13/ ... s_politics
http://genycon.blogspot.com/2008/09/if- ... sh-in.html

Don't forget to add Obama's acknowledgment in the debate that he'd Pre-Emptively Strike Pakistan (If that isn't a Bush Doctrine, then I guess that I haven't been paying attention these passed 8 years).

Awesome bitch-slappage on the sig GZ
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Re: Obama vs. McCain *Poll

Postby detfilteg » Thu Oct 23, 2008 10:39 pm

handgrenadejumper wrote:
Jinzo wrote:The smaller the government the better, but would Obama bring in more government? Under Bush there was more government then we ever had before. The freedom act (sure wire tap me why don't you), also we now have stake in some big companies that were about to burst. I really don't believe my party when we say we want smaller government they have't proven that to me. In addition when Clinton went to office he only needed half of the white house staff compared to Bush Sr and current Bush. Now we have all these new positions created from thin air that we didn't need.


True Jinzo, but for me that question at it's heart is why we vote in the first place. For me i choose to believe the canidate. john McCain says he is for smaller government, and i can see that by the way he votes, the way he has tried to reform the government we currently have. And the same goes for Palin, she has reformed her own party in her state. Yeah we could sit here and say, no one knows, but where does that get us, it's like the saying "shit, or get off the pot".

And for the record, back when it was Bush V Gore, i supported Gore, i thought he would have been the better leader. I don't believe much in what bush has "accomplished" with his 8 years, but thast over now, and i'd rather have someone in office that i know what i'm getting, than someone who to be completly honest scares the shit out of me with his socialist ideals.


John McCain can say he is for smaller government all he wants, but until he outlines his plan to start closing down government agencies and getting the government out of the banking system I will not believe a word he says. "I am for smaller government, but I am pro the government buying up stocks of privately owned banks with 700 million." That does not sound like smaller government to me, that sounds like the same thing they all think. That is that the American government can solve all the problems in the world if they get involved. This is why we are in the middle east, and this is also why we are struggling as an economy and a nation. Until they realize that the more they get involved the more they mess things up, then we will never see true freedom or a strong national defense again.
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Re: Obama vs. McCain *Poll

Postby groundzero » Thu Oct 23, 2008 10:40 pm

agonzalez1 wrote:
groundzero wrote:here it is the kicker the question to end all questions do we really want four more years of bush? cause thats exactly what we will get with mccain and god forbid the 72 year old man dies and palin becomes president


Don't you pay attention :(

Obama = Bush-In-Training
http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/10/13/ ... s_politics
http://genycon.blogspot.com/2008/09/if- ... sh-in.html

Don't forget to add Obama's acknowledgment in the debate that he'd Pre-Emptively Strike Pakistan (If that isn't a Bush Doctrine, then I guess that I haven't been paying attention these passed 8 years).

Awesome bitch-slappage on the sig GZ

yeah i admit obama and bush have a lot in common and hey im not an obama support yay me right? but mccain and bush seem like fucking twins man and with mccain vice choice i just cant even fathom how one could even consider voting for him hes 72 and shes retarded do the math people and thanks i like your sig too even though i dont think obama is anything like hitler (obama doesnt have a sweet stache) but it makes a statement
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Re: Obama vs. McCain *Poll

Postby Smith » Thu Oct 23, 2008 10:55 pm

Groundzero is a good guy. It's good to be suspicious of everyone regardless of what party your views are more like. With age I believe he will fall nicely amongst us constitutional, America loving conservatives.
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Re: Obama vs. McCain *Poll

Postby groundzero » Thu Oct 23, 2008 11:00 pm

Smith wrote:Groundzero is a good guy. It's good to be suspicious of everyone regardless of what party your views are more like. With age I believe he will fall nicely amongst us constitutional, America loving conservatives.

oh man i love america with a passion and im all about the constitution WAR 2nd amendment but i just want people to be free freedom to make the choices you want and marry who you love regardless of gender idk im weird i should just make my own political party call it the freedom party
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Re: Obama vs. McCain *Poll

Postby Tankthatshitt » Thu Oct 23, 2008 11:36 pm

During a time of crisis someone always comes around with dangerous ideas that were once ostracized but now are "good" ideas. It goes for almost all once great nations; Weimar Republic hyperinflation oh man were poor hitler comes along and says fuck no jews are the problem blah blah blah. See what happens. Even now were suffering from inflation so who comes along? Obama with these vey liberal ideas that might have been once looked down upon, but with the current situation and his charisma look like good ideas.( they arent even good ideas..) Im not saying hitler is obama but its best to keep an open eye for any kind of possiblitlies. No one in this nation thinks that our liberties can be jepordized but its happening more and more. The situation is fitting into place. The bailout plan will give the executive branch an amazing amount of power, house of rep are majority democratic, chances are obama wins. There are signs, they might or might not happen but just keep an eye out and dont be so biased where we cant discern between good or bad ideas.
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