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Re: Obama vs. McCain *Poll

Postby TheAssassin » Thu Oct 23, 2008 7:21 pm

agonzalez1 wrote:
dereq wrote:
Ah, you're pulling out the "liberal media" card that Republicans are so fond of...It's becoming a bit of a cliche...Also, "negative McCain coverage" is not something you can quantify...What constitutes "negative coverage" ? Negative is an opinion, it's not a number, an amount, or a measurement...That stat means nothing...


its not a card its a fact, here is your "quantification"

http://voices.washingtonpost.com/the-tr ... _much.html


I'd just like to point out that Hitler's message wasn't Hope in the slightest, unless you mean Hoping that they would become the ultimate power in the world and oppress other people's for their own benefit.
It was more leaning towards the German people becoming the supreme race and becoming the worlds ultimate power.
He didn't give them Hope, he gave them a place to vent the frustrations of WW1 and of his own hate.
Pretty much the jews and the rest of the world.
People need somewhere to vent their frustration and he gave them that, by telling them that they were better than all others and deserved to rule.

A better caption would be Power.
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Re: Obama vs. McCain *Poll

Postby handgrenadejumper » Thu Oct 23, 2008 7:25 pm

dereq wrote:
agonzalez1 wrote:There are similarities. All were/are very popular in their own countries, all were/are great public speakers that did not show their true intentions until later on in their "careers". There have been many horrific comparisons of GW Bush to Hitler, yet it only matters when it happens to Barack Obama.

Obama has promised hope and change..yet his constituencies...who hold a great deal of power over him, are in support of the reinstatement of the "Fairness Doctrine", Net Neutrality, he has people that are out to prosecute anyone that has a dissenting opinion of him...called the Obama "Truth Squad". There a children being taught to sing songs and praise his name. They are calling him the "Alpha and Omega".

All at the same time, can you tell me what Obama has done that would let you believe that he is bipartisan? that he will work across party lines? that he will be a guardian of the constitution?

My fear is that many are voting for Obama, and really dont know what he stands for. The media covers McCain Negatively 57% of the time. They praise Obama and do not ask him tough questions.


Ah, you're pulling out the "liberal media" card that Republicans are so fond of...It's becoming a bit of a cliche...Also, "negative McCain coverage" is not something you can quantify...What constitutes "negative coverage" ? Negative is an opinion, it's not a number, an amount, or a measurement...That stat means nothing...


You right about one thing negative is an opinion. But the people reporting said "news" are to always be impartial. they are not to have opinions when reporting the news, and what news stories to report. They dont' get to pick and choose what is news, and what isn't, they don't decide who is good or bad, and report on it. Thats called a commentator, ala Jon Stewart/Steven Colbert, News is told by bews reporters, and i would say the majority of the "news" is biased toward obama, and no one can debate that fact.

Now for you to go on about comparing the three men in the sig, you are not understanding the comparision. It is their, all 3 hold similar views, all 3 are linked by what they have been doing, and saying.
the other thing that bugged me..

TheAssassin wrote:If they are, I doubt it's his campaign doing it.
If there were any logical proof of that, the press would be all over it.


because the news is biased as talked about before.. it's quite easy if you pay attention to whats going on, instead of buying what the man with the magic beans says.
Last edited by handgrenadejumper on Thu Oct 23, 2008 7:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Obama vs. McCain *Poll

Postby dereq » Thu Oct 23, 2008 7:26 pm

agonzalez1 wrote:
dereq wrote:
Ah, you're pulling out the "liberal media" card that Republicans are so fond of...It's becoming a bit of a cliche...Also, "negative McCain coverage" is not something you can quantify...What constitutes "negative coverage" ? Negative is an opinion, it's not a number, an amount, or a measurement...That stat means nothing...


its not a card its a fact, here is your "quantification"

http://voices.washingtonpost.com/the-tr ... _much.html



Not....this is a news story, obviously open to personal bias, once again, you cannot quantify negative!!!!!! It's not as if they did a scientific, double blind study on it. It's like trying to quantify beautiful...you'll get a different answer from everyone.It's an opinion. I suggest you read up on logical fallacies, you obviously know nothing about them, which would explain your extreme stance...And look, I'm not trying to be a jerk, but your sig is just asking for people to challenge your beliefs... :P
Last edited by dereq on Thu Oct 23, 2008 7:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Obama vs. McCain *Poll

Postby handgrenadejumper » Thu Oct 23, 2008 7:27 pm

dereq wrote:
agonzalez1 wrote:
dereq wrote:
Ah, you're pulling out the "liberal media" card that Republicans are so fond of...It's becoming a bit of a cliche...Also, "negative McCain coverage" is not something you can quantify...What constitutes "negative coverage" ? Negative is an opinion, it's not a number, an amount, or a measurement...That stat means nothing...


its not a card its a fact, here is your "quantification"

http://voices.washingtonpost.com/the-tr ... _much.html



Not....this is a news story, obviously open to personal bias, once again, you cannot quantify negative!!!!!! It's like trying to quantify beautiful...It's an opinion, I suggest you read up on logical fallacies, you obviously know nothing about them, which would explain your extreme stance...


Read what i wrote previous, you CAN quantify negative when it comes to certian things.
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Re: Obama vs. McCain *Poll

Postby TheAssassin » Thu Oct 23, 2008 7:32 pm

handgrenadejumper wrote:
dereq wrote:
agonzalez1 wrote:There are similarities. All were/are very popular in their own countries, all were/are great public speakers that did not show their true intentions until later on in their "careers". There have been many horrific comparisons of GW Bush to Hitler, yet it only matters when it happens to Barack Obama.

Obama has promised hope and change..yet his constituencies...who hold a great deal of power over him, are in support of the reinstatement of the "Fairness Doctrine", Net Neutrality, he has people that are out to prosecute anyone that has a dissenting opinion of him...called the Obama "Truth Squad". There a children being taught to sing songs and praise his name. They are calling him the "Alpha and Omega".

All at the same time, can you tell me what Obama has done that would let you believe that he is bipartisan? that he will work across party lines? that he will be a guardian of the constitution?

My fear is that many are voting for Obama, and really dont know what he stands for. The media covers McCain Negatively 57% of the time. They praise Obama and do not ask him tough questions.


Ah, you're pulling out the "liberal media" card that Republicans are so fond of...It's becoming a bit of a cliche...Also, "negative McCain coverage" is not something you can quantify...What constitutes "negative coverage" ? Negative is an opinion, it's not a number, an amount, or a measurement...That stat means nothing...


You right about one thing negative is an opinion. But the people reporting said "news" are to always be impartial. they are not to have opinions when reporting the news, and what news stories to report. They dont' get to pick and choose what is news, and what isn't, they don't decide who is good or bad, and report on it. Thats called a commentator, ala Jon Stewart/Steven Colbert, News is told by bews reporters, and i would say the majority of the "news" is biased toward obama, and no one can debate that fact.

Now for you to go on about comparing the three men in the sig, you are not understanding the comparision. It is their, all 3 hold similar views, all 3 are linked by what they have been doing, and saying.
the other thing that bugged me..

TheAssassin wrote:If they are, I doubt it's his campaign doing it.
If there were any logical proof of that, the press would be all over it.


because the news is biased as talked about before.. it's quite easy if you pay attention to whats going on, instead of drinking buying what the man with the magic beans says.



...They were all over the whole priest thing.
that's relatively minor and props to McCain for not bringing it up.
They were all over another ridiculous thing like a terrorist hand jab.
BUT
If anything like that happened do you think they would actually have a choice?
That's almost communism.
It's not like they can just ignore something that big.
One credible station might have the cojones to say it and that would cause a huge uproar and everyone would be scrambling for news.

I know half the shit on the news is a lie and fed to you, that's why I try to use my own mind before agreeing with something. No need to assume that I listen to everything I'm told because I support a candidate.
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Re: Obama vs. McCain *Poll

Postby TheAssassin » Thu Oct 23, 2008 7:33 pm

'Good is a point of view' - Darth Sidious.

That is my argument.
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Re: Obama vs. McCain *Poll

Postby agonzalez1 » Thu Oct 23, 2008 7:36 pm

TheAssassin wrote:
I wouldn't compare Bush to Obama either.
Obama is winning by a couple percent.
EVERYONE liked Hitler and Lenin's idea.

Where are children being taught to worship Obama?
If they are, I doubt it's his campaign doing it.
If there were any logical proof of that, the press would be all over it.
But I do agree, they're generally for Obama, which is a bad thing, the media should be neutral, but hey Freedom of Speech works both ways.


Obama = Bush-In-Training
http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/10/13/ ... s_politics
http://genycon.blogspot.com/2008/09/if- ... sh-in.html

Obama isn't having his campaign do these things...but they should recognize the ramifications and have people tone it down. The Press will NOT "be all over it" because they put ideology over journalism.

The images are maybe a bit extreme, but time and again, when revolution begins, the youth are the ones molded to what ought to be. I'm a independent conservative because I believe that each person ought to make his/her own decision. To take that away from a child in efforts to have them believe in an ideology they did not choose, is pretty disheartening on the future of personal liberty.

They call him the Alpha and Omega. I am glad that they are motivated, but why is it taking Obama? What about Bill Cosby, that has been trying for years to do this? Alpha and Omega is in direct contrast to about 80% of US Citizens that still see Christianity as a big part of their lives (I'm agnostic)
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Re: Obama vs. McCain *Poll

Postby agonzalez1 » Thu Oct 23, 2008 7:42 pm

dereq wrote:

Not....this is a news story, obviously open to personal bias, once again, you cannot quantify negative!!!!!! It's not as if they did a scientific, double blind study on it. It's like trying to quantify beautiful...you'll get a different answer from everyone.It's an opinion. I suggest you read up on logical fallacies, you obviously know nothing about them, which would explain your extreme stance...And look, I'm not trying to be a jerk, but your sig is just asking for people to challenge your beliefs... :P


Ahh, the semantics game. Please, I have a degree in biology with a minor in chemistry and in philosophy. We could play that game of simply disavowing sources and playing word games....Like I could tell you that Beauty is symmetry. The golden ratio is beauty, has been tested, has been proven as more appealing, unless you're on crack eating poo out of a cup, :lol:

Does my sig evoke an emotional response, it for damn sure does...most people will not take the time to have a rational discussion unless they're urged to do so. Maybe you'll think about who you vote for before just seeing the product that the media portrays and going with that. To me it is very important to know all there is to know about the candidates.
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Re: Obama vs. McCain *Poll

Postby agonzalez1 » Thu Oct 23, 2008 7:43 pm

TheAssassin wrote:'Good is a point of view' - Darth Sidious.

That is my argument.



I always knew that Obama was a Sith.

Obama = Sith
McCain = Yoda
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Re: Obama vs. McCain *Poll

Postby handgrenadejumper » Thu Oct 23, 2008 7:47 pm

agonzalez1 wrote:
TheAssassin wrote:'Good is a point of view' - Darth Sidious.

That is my argument.



I always knew that Obama was a Sith.

Obama = Sith
McCain = Yoda


Gonzalez = Skywalker.
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Re: Obama vs. McCain *Poll

Postby handgrenadejumper » Thu Oct 23, 2008 8:01 pm

To put it all in prespective, i think it's absolutly insane all the support Obama has garnered from "the people". The man has not been a conducting himself as i would see fit for a person who wants to be president should, he has associated himself with extreamist, Terrorist, and just plain criminals, and yet, people love the man. It's funny, if McCain would have hung out with Tim Mcvey after he blew up the Federal building, would he even be in contention to run? If McCain had gone to church with a man that said, "black people are wrong, and the cause of AID's", would he even be an after thought?

it's interesting question that people OR the media don't raise..
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Re: Obama vs. McCain *Poll

Postby agonzalez1 » Thu Oct 23, 2008 8:19 pm

handgrenadejumper wrote:To put it all in prespective, i think it's absolutly insane all the support Obama has garnered from "the people". The man has not been a conducting himself as i would see fit for a person who wants to be president should, he has associated himself with extreamist, Terrorist, and just plain criminals, and yet, people love the man. It's funny, if McCain would have hung out with Tim Mcvey after he blew up the Federal building, would he even be in contention to run? If McCain had gone to church with a man that said, "black people are wrong, and the cause of AID's", would he even be an after thought?

it's interesting question that people OR the media don't raise..


You're right man, it is a double standard that, if brought up, is flamed as prejudiced. Obama could not pass a CIA background check with these associations - because character does matter. McCain was pretty much called a racist by a former supporter of his - McCain called on Obama to repudiate the remark, Obama changed the subject. When Rev. Wright came out, McCain repudiated it, and did not and has not and will not use Wright as a campaign tactic. Character matter.

Assassin...i'm glad that you've been so spirited, I wish more US Obama supporters would join in civily as you have. You haven't looked hard enough if you really want the nasty McCain pics. They are pretty disturbing. Again...if they were made of Obama, there would be hell to pay....Hell, just putting a BUMPER STICKER of McCain will get your face mutilated.... http://www.thepittsburghchannel.com/new ... etail.html

It's a scary time my friends...i need a beer.
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Re: Obama vs. McCain *Poll

Postby Jinzo » Thu Oct 23, 2008 8:27 pm

agonzalez1 wrote:
handgrenadejumper wrote:To put it all in prespective, i think it's absolutly insane all the support Obama has garnered from "the people". The man has not been a conducting himself as i would see fit for a person who wants to be president should, he has associated himself with extreamist, Terrorist, and just plain criminals, and yet, people love the man. It's funny, if McCain would have hung out with Tim Mcvey after he blew up the Federal building, would he even be in contention to run? If McCain had gone to church with a man that said, "black people are wrong, and the cause of AID's", would he even be an after thought?

it's interesting question that people OR the media don't raise..


You're right man, it is a double standard that, if brought up, is flamed as prejudiced. Obama could not pass a CIA background check with these associations - because character does matter. McCain was pretty much called a racist by a former supporter of his - McCain called on Obama to repudiate the remark, Obama changed the subject. When Rev. Wright came out, McCain repudiated it, and did not and has not and will not use Wright as a campaign tactic. Character matter.

Assassin...i'm glad that you've been so spirited, I wish more US Obama supporters would join in civily as you have. You haven't looked hard enough if you really want the nasty McCain pics. They are pretty disturbing. Again...if they were made of Obama, there would be hell to pay....Hell, just putting a BUMPER STICKER of McCain will get your face mutilated.... http://www.thepittsburghchannel.com/new ... etail.html

It's a scary time my friends...i need a beer.


That's so wrong they should put the assislant in antarctica then have all the nations test out their nuclear weapons there. I doubt the attack was planned or Obama had anything to do with it. If your Barrack the last you want is this kind of stuff to go on the news it'll get people to vote the other side really quick.

On a side note many people who will vote for Obama don't really know about him or his stance on issues and policies. Likewise the same for Mccain, I've heard some of his interviews it just doesn't make any sense.

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Re: Obama vs. McCain *Poll

Postby agonzalez1 » Thu Oct 23, 2008 8:37 pm

Yeah, Obama had nothing to do with it, 100% correct, but the cult of personality that's been built around him - that probably wouldn't be there on it's own, he is charasmatic, he is a great speaker and has a great personality - but I doubt that that if he was truly making the decisions, that he'd let all that's gone on happen.

I've never had any problem with the idea of an Obama presidency, I just disagree with everything he stands for - it will be a push away from personal liberty, responsibility, independence and self-motivation. When the solution to your problems is the government's benefits, the gov't's assurance of a job, the gov't's assurance of retirement, what is the motivation to go out and produce? to innovate?

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Re: Obama vs. McCain *Poll

Postby detfilteg » Thu Oct 23, 2008 8:44 pm

handgrenadejumper wrote:To put it all in prespective, i think it's absolutly insane all the support Obama has garnered from "the people". The man has not been a conducting himself as i would see fit for a person who wants to be president should, he has associated himself with extreamist, Terrorist, and just plain criminals, and yet, people love the man. It's funny, if McCain would have hung out with Tim Mcvey after he blew up the Federal building, would he even be in contention to run? If McCain had gone to church with a man that said, "black people are wrong, and the cause of AID's", would he even be an after thought?

it's interesting question that people OR the media don't raise..



He didn't hang with McVeigh, but he did with Alan Cranston, Dennis DeConcini, John Glenn, and Donald W. Riegle. I would call them criminals with enough power to get away with it. It's not like everyone on capitol hill is squeaky clean, hell probably none of them are. I'm not squeaky clean, are you?

This whole election has been about people's preacher's and who said what when, and what if who said this and they didn't mean it. None of it is about the issues on the table. If I decided to vote for someone purely on something that a preacher said or did, then I would not be voting for anyone because I do not believe in any of the beliefs systems supported by any of the cadidates. It's like a reality television show only the prize is being able to run the country, and in my mind this is a horrible time to be playing American Idol with our Presidency. America needs to grow up and get out from in front of the television.



agonzalez1 wrote:
I've never had any problem with the idea of an Obama presidency, I just disagree with everything he stands for - it will be a push away from personal liberty, responsibility, independence and self-motivation. When the solution to your problems is the government's benefits, the gov't's assurance of a job, the gov't's assurance of retirement, what is the motivation to go out and produce? to innovate?



I do not think that McCain will give us more personal liberty in the end, and our independence has been an issue for far longer than now. I do not need my President to motivate me to go out and do what I do for a living. I motivate myself, not anyone else but me. You are suggesting that Obama will push us away from these things, but that is suggesting that McCain will push us toward these things. If you are self-motivated by McCain as President, then how does that not give you the "cult" mentality that the Obama followers have?
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