Close
Login
Register

Judo and wrestling

Wrestling, jujitsu, ground and pound or submit your opponent for the victory

Re: Judo and wrestling

Postby sammcl » Wed Jul 08, 2009 9:05 pm

TCC, there are also plenty of throws that come from a position where your opponent has shot in, I've done it and seen it done in competition, but it's rare that an mma fighter would try.
Sig Bets: 1 - 0
User avatar
sammcl
Red Belt
Red Belt
 
Posts: 2097
Joined: Thu May 01, 2008 3:26 pm
Location: Dublin, Ireland

Re: Judo and wrestling

Postby ThirdCoastCombat » Thu Jul 09, 2009 8:30 am

sammcl wrote:TCC, there are also plenty of throws that come from a position where your opponent has shot in, I've done it and seen it done in competition, but it's rare that an mma fighter would try.

yeah ive seen a couple of those throws too, but youre right theyre pretty rare in mma. you also have to stuff the shot before you can attempt the throw
User avatar
ThirdCoastCombat
Mod Emeritus
 
Posts: 6924
Joined: Mon Sep 22, 2008 4:20 pm

Re: Judo and wrestling

Postby LordDucon » Sat Jul 11, 2009 7:53 am

irishmike357 wrote:I too know the history of BJJ and Judo. My point is not that BJJ is completely seperate from Judo, my point is that a BJJ competition and a Judo competition is completely seperate. If you like rugby you play it, you don't play football and try to convince people to take their pads off.


OK let's say you define this set of rules :
Ippon is 10 points but no longer a "knock-out", as in it doesn't end the match. In order to get Ippon tori (the "thrower") needs to demonstrate complete control of uke (the "throwee"), and that will be judged by the dominant position he can acquire shortly after the throw (side mount, full mount, rear mount, still standing, elbow lock, etc.). If tori ends up in uke's guard, tori only gets 5 points. And if uke ends up taking tori's back after the throw, tori get's 0 points. This set of rules for the stand will make for a much more realistic combat environment.
Then the action follows on ground, were 1 can finish de the fight with a lock or choke. The fighters should get more time on ground than they do know, but the referee should stand them up if there's no action, and give aggressivity penalties.
You can therefore win via submission or points. Immobilizations should also give points since it demonstrates control and an opportunity for ground and pound.
I think we could successfully achieve a hybrib Nage-waza / Ne-waza competition with this, and eliminate the stupid throws where tori ends up more vulnerable than not on the ground, like giving his back. And the guillotine should definitely be allowed...
Anyways, just my 2 cents.

PS : Daido juku is a mix of karate + judo (originally), with a specific set of rules to enforce it. Seems to work pretty good. So if the mixing of striking and grappling can beachieved then one can surely find a regulation system that can enforce the mixing of ground grappling (BJJ) and stand up grappling (judo)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FSE9u1p7 ... re=related

You have to bear the first half minute
LordDucon
White Belt
White Belt
 
Posts: 77
Joined: Wed Feb 04, 2009 1:30 am

Re: Judo and wrestling

Postby irishmike357 » Sat Jul 11, 2009 8:05 am

LordDucon wrote:
irishmike357 wrote:I too know the history of BJJ and Judo. My point is not that BJJ is completely seperate from Judo, my point is that a BJJ competition and a Judo competition is completely seperate. If you like rugby you play it, you don't play football and try to convince people to take their pads off.


OK let's say you define this set of rules :
Ippon is 10 points but no longer a "knock-out", as in it doesn't end the match. In order to get Ippon tori (the "thrower") needs to demonstrate complete control of uke (the "throwee"), and that will be judged by the dominant position he can acquire shortly after the throw (side mount, full mount, rear mount, still standing, elbow lock, etc.). If tori ends up in uke's guard, tori only gets 5 points. And if uke ends up taking tori's back after the throw, tori get's 0 points. This set of rules for the stand will make for a much more realistic combat environment.
Then the action follows on ground, were 1 can finish de the fight with a lock or choke. The fighters should get more time on ground than they do know, but the referee should stand them up if there's no action, and give aggressivity penalties.
You can therefore win via submission or points. Immobilizations should also give points since it demonstrates control and an opportunity for ground and pound.
I think we could successfully achieve a hybrib Nage-waza / Ne-waza competition with this, and eliminate the stupid throws where tori ends up more vulnerable than not on the ground, like giving his back. And the guillotine should definitely be allowed...
Anyways, just my 2 cents.

PS : Daido juku is a mix of karate + judo (originally), with a specific set of rules to enforce it. Seems to work pretty good. So if the mixing of striking and grappling can beachieved then one can surely find a regulation system that can enforce the mixing of ground grappling (BJJ) and stand up grappling (judo)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FSE9u1p7 ... re=related

You have to bear the first half minute

Ok. I like the idea, but you can't call that Judo. It would be ok to do a competition like this as long as they are not replacing Judo and BJJ comps.

I would take part in a hybrid BJJ/Judo comp though, where throws are scored higher than the normal 2 points, that would be pretty cool. As it stands now I do BJJ comps and can usually get the takedown on the BJJ guys so that would be a benefit to me. I will have to check out Daido Juku, Karate/Judo sounds like Combat Sambo to me. Should be cool.
Go leor uaireanta béal mans bhris a shrón

Image

JHM
LHK
User avatar
irishmike357
Mod Emeritus
 
Posts: 23183
Joined: Sun May 24, 2009 9:15 am
Accolades: Hall of Famer, Former Intercontinental and US Champ

Re: Judo and wrestling

Postby LordDucon » Sat Jul 11, 2009 8:43 pm

Yeah those would be pretty cool...
I forgot one thing : you can't pull guard. Pulling guard gives you a penalty.
I think generally martial arts should go towards Sogo budo and mix it up between different styles, like the samourais did on the battlefield. For example, I've done a bit of Aikido, and althought extremely unrealistic (the ballet dancing, arm giving and the like...) in certain ways I think there's alot of good it in, if only for the tai-sabaki. It should teach you how to move against multiple attackers and the techniques blend well with striking and grappling. Hapkido and Aikido seem to be inter-range beetween striking and grappling. And if one can master that range, should be a very effective and efficient way to end a fight.
If you're not convinced, just watch those Steven Seagal movies again !
LordDucon
White Belt
White Belt
 
Posts: 77
Joined: Wed Feb 04, 2009 1:30 am

Re: Judo and wrestling

Postby fighter155 » Sat Sep 12, 2009 4:55 pm

if uk enough of each style u can intertwine them. example is i used a judo toss as my counter 2 a single leg i would use a wizard and grab the other arm in place of grabbing a gi and that would be the leverage i needed 2 throw them also if ur sneaky enough u can enough use some bjj chokes on the wrestling mats i used the guillotine(without pulling guard though) the north south choke the d'arce choke and the arm triangle so if u know some moves from all styles it can benefit you when doing just your style of fighting thats y mma is so amazing
"unless u continually work evolve and innovate u will learn a quick and painful lesson from someone who has"
LW- tyson

WW gsp

MW- nate, vitor

LHW- SHOGUN,

HW- big nog, carwin
User avatar
fighter155
Black Belt
Black Belt
 
Posts: 2530
Joined: Tue Aug 12, 2008 6:34 pm

Re: Judo and wrestling

Postby exsanguinator » Wed Sep 16, 2009 12:46 am

irishmike357 wrote:
LordDucon wrote:
irishmike357 wrote:I too know the history of BJJ and Judo. My point is not that BJJ is completely seperate from Judo, my point is that a BJJ competition and a Judo competition is completely seperate. If you like rugby you play it, you don't play football and try to convince people to take their pads off.


OK let's say you define this set of rules :
Ippon is 10 points but no longer a "knock-out", as in it doesn't end the match. In order to get Ippon tori (the "thrower") needs to demonstrate complete control of uke (the "throwee"), and that will be judged by the dominant position he can acquire shortly after the throw (side mount, full mount, rear mount, still standing, elbow lock, etc.). If tori ends up in uke's guard, tori only gets 5 points. And if uke ends up taking tori's back after the throw, tori get's 0 points. This set of rules for the stand will make for a much more realistic combat environment.
Then the action follows on ground, were 1 can finish de the fight with a lock or choke. The fighters should get more time on ground than they do know, but the referee should stand them up if there's no action, and give aggressivity penalties.
You can therefore win via submission or points. Immobilizations should also give points since it demonstrates control and an opportunity for ground and pound.
I think we could successfully achieve a hybrib Nage-waza / Ne-waza competition with this, and eliminate the stupid throws where tori ends up more vulnerable than not on the ground, like giving his back. And the guillotine should definitely be allowed...
Anyways, just my 2 cents.

PS : Daido juku is a mix of karate + judo (originally), with a specific set of rules to enforce it. Seems to work pretty good. So if the mixing of striking and grappling can beachieved then one can surely find a regulation system that can enforce the mixing of ground grappling (BJJ) and stand up grappling (judo)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FSE9u1p7 ... re=related

You have to bear the first half minute

Ok. I like the idea, but you can't call that Judo. It would be ok to do a competition like this as long as they are not replacing Judo and BJJ comps.

I would take part in a hybrid BJJ/Judo comp though, where throws are scored higher than the normal 2 points, that would be pretty cool. As it stands now I do BJJ comps and can usually get the takedown on the BJJ guys so that would be a benefit to me. I will have to check out Daido Juku, Karate/Judo sounds like Combat Sambo to me. Should be cool.


This is how ADCC works, to my understanding. The thing that makes ADCC so prestigious is that it allows all kinds of grappling: bjj, judo, catch wrestling, etc so the point system has to be worked differently than most other grappling tournaments such as a take down and landing in your opponents guard is worth 2 points while a take down that lands you outside of it is worth 4. You are directly compensated for the control factor that you gain from the takedown (ippon, as I understand it) but the fight is still not over. You are awarded points for control, reflected by improving your position, or other things such as advantage points, where you could potentially end the fight if there were no time limit.
We all need some place we can go away to, some place where we can be who we should have been instead of who we are.
User avatar
exsanguinator
 
Posts: 11182
Joined: Wed Aug 20, 2008 2:09 pm
Location: Did you see the pool? They flipped the bitch!

Previous

Return to Ground Game

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users