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Re: Obama vs. McCain *Poll

Postby PainDog » Fri Oct 17, 2008 10:13 am

If the election follows the poll here...Obama is gonna win this one 2:1...

It is interesting though, that for the most part the Obama supporters are rather silent, where as the McCain supporteres are very vocal.
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Re: Obama vs. McCain *Poll

Postby detfilteg » Fri Oct 17, 2008 10:31 am

s8championjgh wrote:
I do not judge Obama by the whole Ayers thing. I judge him on his socialistic views. As I stated before I will vote for neither of these two men because neither of them speak to me even on a very small level. I cannot connect with either one because both of them have policies that do not agree with my ideals as a person and the role I think government should play in my life, and I will not vote for the "less of two evils" because I do not vote for evil no matter how small.

The only point I was trying to make is that McCain isn't the great soldier everyone makes him out to be. His grandfather and father were, but young McCain just could not acheive the same standard that was put before him by his relatives.


the thing is, one of them is going to be preseident so why not vote for the lesser of 2 evils?

how was he not a great war hero? he was a prisoner of war for sum 9 years and never gave any info to his enemy. thats pretty great in my book


As I said I just cannot vote for evil. The only reason one of them is going to be President is because everyone has this two party mind frame, and then there are people like you that try and convince everyone to vote inside the two dominant parties because the third party does not stand a chance. While people in America still have that attitude then that statement will continue to hold true.

Secondly I will not betray myself by voting for someone I do not believe in at all. You might be willing to do that just so you can say you voted for one of the top two candidates, but I cannot pull myself to vote for someone who I truly do not support in any ideal/stance/platform. I am going to stay true to my own thoughts and ideas and I say fuck the top two because they do not match up with me on anything. Not that someone from the third party is going to match with me 100%, but a lot closer than Obama or McCain. As I have said many times in this thread I will probably be voting for Ron Paul even though he will not be on the ballot.

Yes he was a POW, and yes it took a lot of strength and determination to make it through that time. In all reality we do not know what McCain disclosed to his captors during this time and to claim that you know he gave up no information is absolutely absurd. The only people that know this 100% are McCain and his captors. Again I will say that my point was not to discredit McCain as a war hero, but only that we are always presented with a one sided account of his service to this country. If you look at his track record prior to his days as a POW then perhaps there is a correlation between his skill as a pilot and his capture as a POW. I will say it again because I know how offended people get, but I support McCain's service to this country and during a time of war. But I know plenty of war vets and that in itself does not qualify someone for the presidency.
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Re: Obama vs. McCain *Poll

Postby s8championjgh » Fri Oct 17, 2008 11:31 am

Re: Obama vs. McCain *Poll
by detfilteg on Fri Oct 17, 2008 10:31 am

s8championjgh wrote:
I do not judge Obama by the whole Ayers thing. I judge him on his socialistic views. As I stated before I will vote for neither of these two men because neither of them speak to me even on a very small level. I cannot connect with either one because both of them have policies that do not agree with my ideals as a person and the role I think government should play in my life, and I will not vote for the "less of two evils" because I do not vote for evil no matter how small.

The only point I was trying to make is that McCain isn't the great soldier everyone makes him out to be. His grandfather and father were, but young McCain just could not acheive the same standard that was put before him by his relatives.


the thing is, one of them is going to be preseident so why not vote for the lesser of 2 evils?

how was he not a great war hero? he was a prisoner of war for sum 9 years and never gave any info to his enemy. thats pretty great in my book


As I said I just cannot vote for evil. The only reason one of them is going to be President is because everyone has this two party mind frame, and then there are people like you that try and convince everyone to vote inside the two dominant parties because the third party does not stand a chance. While people in America still have that attitude then that statement will continue to hold true.

Secondly I will not betray myself by voting for someone I do not believe in at all. You might be willing to do that just so you can say you voted for one of the top two candidates, but I cannot pull myself to vote for someone who I truly do not support in any ideal/stance/platform. I am going to stay true to my own thoughts and ideas and I say fuck the top two because they do not match up with me on anything. Not that someone from the third party is going to match with me 100%, but a lot closer than Obama or McCain. As I have said many times in this thread I will probably be voting for Ron Paul even though he will not be on the ballot.

Yes he was a POW, and yes it took a lot of strength and determination to make it through that time. In all reality we do not know what McCain disclosed to his captors during this time and to claim that you know he gave up no information is absolutely absurd. The only people that know this 100% are McCain and his captors. Again I will say that my point was not to discredit McCain as a war hero, but only that we are always presented with a one sided account of his service to this country. If you look at his track record prior to his days as a POW then perhaps there is a correlation between his skill as a pilot and his capture as a POW. I will say it again because I know how offended people get, but I support McCain's service to this country and during a time of war. But I know plenty of war vets and that in itself does not qualify someone for the presidency.


People ike me who try and convince people? Dude thats the way it is in america. one of the major parties is going to win plain and simple. not voting is dumb cause you have the ability to vote for the candidate who is better for you than the other. why would you not take that option?

And there is no reason to discredit mccain. there is zero evidence that he gave anything as a pow. the fact is he was a pow for nine years. nine years man gone from your life. he has sacrificed more for american than you and I can ever dream of. he deserves some respect and should not be doubted.
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Re: Obama vs. McCain *Poll

Postby chadjohn24 » Fri Oct 17, 2008 11:55 am

PainDog wrote:If the election follows the poll here...Obama is gonna win this one 2:1...

It is interesting though, that for the most part the Obama supporters are rather silent, where as the McCain supporteres are very vocal.


It is pretty common knowledge that Obama is leading in the 18-25 year old demographic group. Which is predominately the majority of individuals on this site. IMO it is because this group as a whole, not refering to anyone on this site, are ignorant on the issues. They just here "change" and say ok I will vote for Obama. I don't fall into this demographic group and I definately don't support Obama. However, I do feel that Obama has a lead in the polls and will probably win the election but it will be much closer than everyone expects.
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Re: Obama vs. McCain *Poll

Postby agonzalez1 » Fri Oct 17, 2008 1:11 pm

chadjohn24 wrote:
PainDog wrote:If the election follows the poll here...Obama is gonna win this one 2:1...

It is interesting though, that for the most part the Obama supporters are rather silent, where as the McCain supporteres are very vocal.


It is pretty common knowledge that Obama is leading in the 18-25 year old demographic group. Which is predominately the majority of individuals on this site. IMO it is because this group as a whole, not refering to anyone on this site, are ignorant on the issues. They just here "change" and say ok I will vote for Obama. I don't fall into this demographic group and I definately don't support Obama. However, I do feel that Obama has a lead in the polls and will probably win the election but it will be much closer than everyone expects.


Well, the majority of the vocal people here are conservative. I've never really considered you a liberal, Paindog...you're pretty even on both sides...silverblunt, conky (though less knowledgable) are resident libs.

Now keep that in mind. A bunch of folks here aren't US citizens...so they couldn't vote anyways - unless ACORN registers them.

A headline from http://www.drudgereport.com has the following (the document is 29 pages, so i can't read that now):

"AP/YAHOO Poll of 873 Democrats; 650 Republicans shows OBAMA 44%, MCCAIN 42%" ----- Looks like even with dems in the majority, the lead is slim. Jack Murtha...one of "Obama's Merry Men" i referred to earlier on this thread....said that his constituency is racist. and that's why obama isn't ahead.

Here's McCain roasting Obama last night at the Alfred E. Smith Dinner (in two parts)




Here's Obamas




My Spin:

First off, I thought is a breath of fresh air from all this back and forth. It was nice to see them both in a different frame of mind. See Jinzo's Bush Quotes thread to see that these guys have personality beyond the partisan politics.

Yet...Obama...the eloquent speaker...had a speech written out...and really wasn't funny. And it shows he just takes himself too seriously.

I've noticed Obama's graying hair..and his general stressed out look these passed few months. I can't believe that this is wearing him out. I've seen Clinton, and GWBush for their presidencies..both came out gray haired..but Obama just started??? he's already stressed out???? Someone said McCain is old so he'll die - yet he still looks youthful and Hiked the Grand Canyon last summer. Obama is just stressed out...can anyone say myocardial infarction?
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Re: Obama vs. McCain *Poll

Postby PainDog » Fri Oct 17, 2008 1:30 pm

agonzalez1 wrote:Well, the majority of the vocal people here are conservative. I've never really considered you a liberal, Paindog...you're pretty even on both sides...


I appreciate that....

agonzalez1 wrote:Now keep that in mind. A bunch of folks here aren't US citizens......


I would say there are as many if not more Canadians on the forums than Americans.....MMAlinker is a Canadian site after all.


agonzalez1 wrote:I've noticed Obama's graying hair..and his general stressed out look these passed few months. I can't believe that this is wearing him out. I've seen Clinton, and GWBush for their presidencies..both came out gray haired..but Obama just started??? he's already stressed out???? Someone said McCain is old so he'll die - yet he still looks youthful and Hiked the Grand Canyon last summer. Obama is just stressed out...can anyone say myocardial infarction?


Obama does look really stressed out and has for some time now...
Probably trying to give up smoking while dealing with this is really getting to him.

I dont know if I would say McCain looks youthfull......
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Re: Obama vs. McCain *Poll

Postby TheAssassin » Fri Oct 17, 2008 3:56 pm

PainDog wrote:If the election follows the poll here...Obama is gonna win this one 2:1...

It is interesting though, that for the most part the Obama supporters are rather silent, where as the McCain supporteres are very vocal.


Because they know their breed is dying and wanna make a last stand.
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Re: Obama vs. McCain *Poll

Postby detfilteg » Fri Oct 17, 2008 4:54 pm

s8championjgh wrote:
Re: Obama vs. McCain *Poll
by detfilteg on Fri Oct 17, 2008 10:31 am

s8championjgh wrote:
I do not judge Obama by the whole Ayers thing. I judge him on his socialistic views. As I stated before I will vote for neither of these two men because neither of them speak to me even on a very small level. I cannot connect with either one because both of them have policies that do not agree with my ideals as a person and the role I think government should play in my life, and I will not vote for the "less of two evils" because I do not vote for evil no matter how small.

The only point I was trying to make is that McCain isn't the great soldier everyone makes him out to be. His grandfather and father were, but young McCain just could not acheive the same standard that was put before him by his relatives.


the thing is, one of them is going to be preseident so why not vote for the lesser of 2 evils?

how was he not a great war hero? he was a prisoner of war for sum 9 years and never gave any info to his enemy. thats pretty great in my book


As I said I just cannot vote for evil. The only reason one of them is going to be President is because everyone has this two party mind frame, and then there are people like you that try and convince everyone to vote inside the two dominant parties because the third party does not stand a chance. While people in America still have that attitude then that statement will continue to hold true.

Secondly I will not betray myself by voting for someone I do not believe in at all. You might be willing to do that just so you can say you voted for one of the top two candidates, but I cannot pull myself to vote for someone who I truly do not support in any ideal/stance/platform. I am going to stay true to my own thoughts and ideas and I say fuck the top two because they do not match up with me on anything. Not that someone from the third party is going to match with me 100%, but a lot closer than Obama or McCain. As I have said many times in this thread I will probably be voting for Ron Paul even though he will not be on the ballot.

Yes he was a POW, and yes it took a lot of strength and determination to make it through that time. In all reality we do not know what McCain disclosed to his captors during this time and to claim that you know he gave up no information is absolutely absurd. The only people that know this 100% are McCain and his captors. Again I will say that my point was not to discredit McCain as a war hero, but only that we are always presented with a one sided account of his service to this country. If you look at his track record prior to his days as a POW then perhaps there is a correlation between his skill as a pilot and his capture as a POW. I will say it again because I know how offended people get, but I support McCain's service to this country and during a time of war. But I know plenty of war vets and that in itself does not qualify someone for the presidency.


People ike me who try and convince people? Dude thats the way it is in america. one of the major parties is going to win plain and simple. not voting is dumb cause you have the ability to vote for the candidate who is better for you than the other. why would you not take that option?

And there is no reason to discredit mccain. there is zero evidence that he gave anything as a pow. the fact is he was a pow for nine years. nine years man gone from your life. he has sacrificed more for american than you and I can ever dream of. he deserves some respect and should not be doubted.




The frame of mind that you are presenting, one that suggests things are the
way they are and there is nothing we can do about it, is the exact reason
why we have a two party system in place right now. If people keep following
this frame of mind then your argument is 100% true. The frame of mind that
I am presenting, one that suggests things are the way they are and that they
can be changed with enough action from motivated individuals, is typically
looked upon as incorrect and I do not understand why. You are correct that
I do have the ability to vote for the candidate who is better for me, and I
am exercising that right by not voting for either of the two top candidates.


I think some of the problem lies in the American people. Americans are very
prone to go to one biased news source for their news, and then tend to
believe whatever this "trusted" news source tells them. Instead Americans
should read several different new sources from around the world, and yes
there will be biased in those articles as well, but if you look at them both
and then find the middle ground then you have probably stumbled upon the
truth.

There is plenty of reason to discredit McCain, he is running for President
of the United States. You are correct that there is zero evidence he gave
up anything as a POW, but then again there is zero evidence to support that
he did not give up anything as a POW. As you can tell from my previous
paragraph I am not one to accept things at face value when everyone else
does. I just get sick of all of the one sided propaganda that is thrown at
the public about McCain's military record when if you really look at it,
his record really is not all that impressive. McCain deserves respect, but
unquestioning loyalty and not doubting him I think is a big mistake.

Especially when I work side by side with guys who have fought for America
in Desert Storm and Operation Iraqi Freedom that suffer, and their families,
due to the inability of our leaders in Washington to make decisions that are
best for the American people. Truth be told, in my opinion, it is very sad
that our two party system could not come up with a single candidate that is
good for us as a whole, as America. And it is very disheartening to find
that people still support this two party system and refuse to do anything to
change it when we are constantly being mislead and run into the ground by
the same two party system.

I respect your opinion and your decisions to stand by your thoughts and
ideas. That is very uncommon in this day and age. In the end I agree with
you that we will end up with one of the top two candidates in office, and
when things really start to get bad for us economically, socially, and
militarily perhaps people will then see that perhaps our government system
is flawed and needs a major overhaul.

"The tree of liberty needs to be refreshed from time to time with the blood
of patriot and tyrants"
-Thomas Jefferson
wilfred wrote:We all have to make sacrifices, Ryan. Like the story of Jesus Christ. I'm sure the Roman soldiers wanted to hang out at the Pantheon and stare at tits all day, but they knew they had a duty to kill Jesus.

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Re: Obama vs. McCain *Poll

Postby chadjohn24 » Fri Oct 17, 2008 5:08 pm



I'm with Joe the plumber, screw spreading the wealth by way of handouts for welfare.
Even though it seems Joe the plumber isn't even really a licensed plumber :lol: and he is behind on his taxes. Damn Joe!!
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Re: Obama vs. McCain *Poll

Postby Jinzo » Fri Oct 17, 2008 5:33 pm

detfilteg wrote:


The frame of mind that you are presenting, one that suggests things are the
way they are and there is nothing we can do about it, is the exact reason
why we have a two party system in place right now. If people keep following
this frame of mind then your argument is 100% true. The frame of mind that
I am presenting, one that suggests things are the way they are and that they
can be changed with enough action from motivated individuals, is typically
looked upon as incorrect and I do not understand why. You are correct that
I do have the ability to vote for the candidate who is better for me, and I
am exercising that right by not voting for either of the two top candidates.


I think some of the problem lies in the American people. Americans are very
prone to go to one biased news source for their news, and then tend to
believe whatever this "trusted" news source tells them. Instead Americans
should read several different new sources from around the world, and yes
there will be biased in those articles as well, but if you look at them both
and then find the middle ground then you have probably stumbled upon the
truth.

There is plenty of reason to discredit McCain, he is running for President
of the United States. You are correct that there is zero evidence he gave
up anything as a POW, but then again there is zero evidence to support that
he did not give up anything as a POW. As you can tell from my previous
paragraph I am not one to accept things at face value when everyone else
does. I just get sick of all of the one sided propaganda that is thrown at
the public about McCain's military record when if you really look at it,
his record really is not all that impressive. McCain deserves respect, but
unquestioning loyalty and not doubting him I think is a big mistake.

Especially when I work side by side with guys who have fought for America
in Desert Storm and Operation Iraqi Freedom that suffer, and their families,
due to the inability of our leaders in Washington to make decisions that are
best for the American people. Truth be told, in my opinion, it is very sad
that our two party system could not come up with a single candidate that is
good for us as a whole, as America. And it is very disheartening to find
that people still support this two party system and refuse to do anything to
change it when we are constantly being mislead and run into the ground by
the same two party system.

I respect your opinion and your decisions to stand by your thoughts and
ideas. That is very uncommon in this day and age. In the end I agree with
you that we will end up with one of the top two candidates in office, and
when things really start to get bad for us economically, socially, and
militarily perhaps people will then see that perhaps our government system
is flawed and needs a major overhaul.

"The tree of liberty needs to be refreshed from time to time with the blood
of patriot and tyrants"
-Thomas Jefferson


Very well said. We don't have much of a selection both candidates have very similar basic fundamentals. I wanted someone to go in and say "We should get government out of the economy." But no Obama & Mccain both supported the bail out plan and plan for more government intervention.

I would have love to see someone from the Libertarian Party join the debate with Mccain and Obama but the bias media doesn't want that.
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Re: Obama vs. McCain *Poll

Postby Jim Hellen » Sat Oct 18, 2008 12:43 pm

This election is the biggest joke of an election, Barack Obama is the least qualified candidate in the history of America.
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Re: Obama vs. McCain *Poll

Postby OMGLASERGUNPEWPEW » Sun Oct 19, 2008 12:38 am

Jim Hellen wrote:This election is the biggest joke of an election, Barack Obama is the least qualified candidate in the history of America.

Bush was more qualified? :shock:
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Re: Obama vs. McCain *Poll

Postby TheAssassin » Sun Oct 19, 2008 12:48 am

OMGLASERGUNPEWPEW wrote:
Jim Hellen wrote:This election is the biggest joke of an election, Barack Obama is the least qualified candidate in the history of America.

Bush was more qualified? :shock:


I think experience is just another bullshit call.
All you have to know is that money is everything and the fat cats control the money, so you better gtfo of there way, or better yet start a few money earning wars for them and you have all the experience you need.
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Re: Obama vs. McCain *Poll

Postby Jinzo » Sun Oct 19, 2008 1:33 am

TheAssassin wrote:
OMGLASERGUNPEWPEW wrote:
Jim Hellen wrote:This election is the biggest joke of an election, Barack Obama is the least qualified candidate in the history of America.

Bush was more qualified? :shock:


I think experience is just another bullshit call.
All you have to know is that money is everything and the fat cats control the money, so you better gtfo of there way, or better yet start a few money earning wars for them and you have all the experience you need.


How do you define being qualified for President?

Education: If so John Mccain graduated 894 out of 899 in the Academy.
Barack Obama earned a Bachelors degree then went ahead and earned a Law degree.

Leadership: John Mccain refusal to leave POW camp when he was released. He denied his release because he simply didn't want to turn his back on his men.
Barack Obama umm i'm not sure

Business Men: Mccain is a successful business man with a net worth of 41 million dollars
Barack Obama wasn't interested in making money anyhow he has a net worth less than 5 million dollars.(A Socialist? I hope not).
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Re: Obama vs. McCain *Poll

Postby Smith » Sun Oct 19, 2008 1:45 am

Hey now... Obama has plenty of leadership experience. He lead sheep to the polls during his run as a "community organizer"... Hell some probably 2 or 3 times!
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