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question about rolling

Wrestling, jujitsu, ground and pound or submit your opponent for the victory

Re: question about rolling

Postby daaalvarado » Thu Feb 16, 2012 10:16 am

Fearless6691 wrote:
daaalvarado wrote:Here's what I think; When you tap you let the other person now that:

1. It hurts, beyond what you want to take, is getting dangerous.
2. You can't escape from it or don't know how to or don't have enough time to.
3. You submit, because 1 and 2.

If you are going against someone at your level or above, you must tap when it hurts beyond what you can take and don't know or don't have enough time to do a technical escape. If you're going against someone on your level and you tap on something that wasn't very tight or technical, you had chance to escape but were lazy you are doing yourself and your training partner a disservice. If something is starting to hurt but you have a clear technical escape you can do, go for it, if what he is doing is just painful but not necesarily dangerous don't tap build endurance to take that pain (e.g. Knee on belly, Body Triangle). If it doesn't hurt but you think is dangerous tap (e.g. Heel hook).

When I roll with someone less skilled than me, I open the game for them but don't give them the easy tap. I allow them to put me say spider guard, or take my back, or let them mount me, etc and use it as a good chance to practice transitions and escapes, and it allows them to develop better positioning learning, and learn what they need to do to control someone...

I always think that if you dominate positions the submissions will come later on... For example if you become proficient at taking the back, learning the rear naked choke will be easier. But you can learn the rear naked choke from the best instructor and the world but if you don't know how to take the back and control it you will never land that choke.
Hope I made sense!

Spider guard? ewwwww gi


Hahaha I do both. They are both enjoyable to me. I see Renato Laranja on your avatar I take you must be a 10th Planet.
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Re: question about rolling

Postby Fearless6691 » Thu Feb 16, 2012 9:47 pm

daaalvarado wrote:
Fearless6691 wrote:
daaalvarado wrote:Here's what I think; When you tap you let the other person now that:

1. It hurts, beyond what you want to take, is getting dangerous.
2. You can't escape from it or don't know how to or don't have enough time to.
3. You submit, because 1 and 2.

If you are going against someone at your level or above, you must tap when it hurts beyond what you can take and don't know or don't have enough time to do a technical escape. If you're going against someone on your level and you tap on something that wasn't very tight or technical, you had chance to escape but were lazy you are doing yourself and your training partner a disservice. If something is starting to hurt but you have a clear technical escape you can do, go for it, if what he is doing is just painful but not necesarily dangerous don't tap build endurance to take that pain (e.g. Knee on belly, Body Triangle). If it doesn't hurt but you think is dangerous tap (e.g. Heel hook).

When I roll with someone less skilled than me, I open the game for them but don't give them the easy tap. I allow them to put me say spider guard, or take my back, or let them mount me, etc and use it as a good chance to practice transitions and escapes, and it allows them to develop better positioning learning, and learn what they need to do to control someone...

I always think that if you dominate positions the submissions will come later on... For example if you become proficient at taking the back, learning the rear naked choke will be easier. But you can learn the rear naked choke from the best instructor and the world but if you don't know how to take the back and control it you will never land that choke.
Hope I made sense!

Spider guard? ewwwww gi


Hahaha I do both. They are both enjoyable to me. I see Renato Laranja on your avatar I take you must be a 10th Planet.

I wear a gi in all of my fights. This Eddie Bravo, he does this high gaurd, he do not wear the gi. He smoka teh heefer with Joe Hogan.
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I hated every minute of training, but I said, "Don't quit.
Suffer now and live the rest of your life as a champion.
"
_________________________________Muhammad Ali
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Re: question about rolling

Postby daaalvarado » Fri Feb 24, 2012 11:04 am

Renato? Is that you? You're best Real Jiu Jitsu Master in world.
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Re: question about rolling

Postby Fearless6691 » Tue Feb 28, 2012 12:16 am

Yes it is ;)
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I hated every minute of training, but I said, "Don't quit.
Suffer now and live the rest of your life as a champion.
"
_________________________________Muhammad Ali
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Re: question about rolling

Postby jitzkrieg » Wed Sep 05, 2012 9:49 am

Just open the lines of communication, if it's someone less experienced. You won't come off as being a dick by telling someone "You don't quite got it. It's close, but you just need to ____________ to finish it off" even right in the middle of the roll. Then, I usually allow them to reposition the proper way, apply pressure, and then either attempt to escape or just give them the sub.

The biggest thing for me to learn was that ego has no place in training. These guys are all working together to ensure that everyone progresses in their technique. It's somewhat natural to want to prove something in training as well, but dominating a weaker guy without offering any instruction doesn't help you progress, it doesn't help them progress, and that 10 seconds of satisfaction from tapping an inexperienced guy is definitely not worth it.

Now, if someone is at the same or greater level than you, do the opposite. Try your techniques out and if it seems like you got something, but they aren't reacting the way you expect, ask them if you got it or not. If not, ask them what you should be doing. You can never ask too many questions, or offer too much advice. Proper technique is paramount, and should be concentrated on way before you concern yourself with tappin' fools. Your fluidity and speed and overall grappling prowess depends on a solid foundation. Otherwise, it's like building a house on a riverbed

I like whoever said "to teach is to learn twice". The biggest thing in training is to be able to be both a good teacher at times and a good student at times.

That's my two cents on it. I apologize if you know most of this stuff already, but its just tips I had to learn myself. I am a natural competitor and went into the gym night in and night out with what I felt was something to prove. I was going 100% all the time and gassing like crazy, and developed a bit of a reputation for being a bit too reckless and stiff when rolling, and I'll never forget when one of the guys who I respected and was a great grappler came up to me after a class and actually spoke up. It actually changed my perspective and I became 10x the grappler because of it. Forcing myself to tone down my compete level in training allowed me to better stay calm and focused on using proper techniques, and the results were far better than when I just went all-out prior to that. All it took was one guy speaking up.

Keeping an open line of communication with the other members of the gym can only be a positive thing. That's what I gathered anyways.

Good luck man!
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