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Official Wendler 5/3/1

Conditioning, one of the most important aspects of your training. Strength, everyone needs it. Discuss what works for you?

Re: Official Wendler 5/3/1

Postby Acepitbull » Thu Jul 12, 2012 1:39 pm

Here's a good link for less advanced lifters thinking about 5/3/1.

http://www.jimwendler.com/2011/09/531-for-a-beginner/
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Re: Official Wendler 5/3/1

Postby red_donn » Fri Jul 13, 2012 5:53 pm

Acepitbull wrote:Here's a good link for less advanced lifters thinking about 5/3/1.

http://www.jimwendler.com/2011/09/531-for-a-beginner/


Fearless, I highly recommend that you try this version.

It just doesn't make sense for a beginner to train each lift once a week, when what you really need is continual practice and work on form. I'd recommend using some upper-body pulling motions, like pull-ups, as assistance work on the non-deadlift days.
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Re: Official Wendler 5/3/1

Postby Fearless6691 » Fri Jul 13, 2012 10:22 pm

red_donn wrote:
Acepitbull wrote:Here's a good link for less advanced lifters thinking about 5/3/1.

http://www.jimwendler.com/2011/09/531-for-a-beginner/


Fearless, I highly recommend that you try this version.

It just doesn't make sense for a beginner to train each lift once a week, when what you really need is continual practice and work on form. I'd recommend using some upper-body pulling motions, like pull-ups, as assistance work on the non-deadlift days.

Hmmm, I might just do that. I will be out in the middle of no where for two weeks tomorrow morning, thanks to the military. So I won't be able to lift until the 29th.
So regular weighted pulls ups on day 1
Nothing on day two (Dead lifting day)
Wide grip chin ups weighted on day 3?
Maybe rows on day 1 and curls on day 3?
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Re: Official Wendler 5/3/1

Postby Fearless6691 » Tue Jul 31, 2012 1:39 pm

I really wish I could just nail down what I need to do to get stronger. I just wish their was one solid way of doing things.
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Re: Official Wendler 5/3/1

Postby TheAssassin » Tue Jul 31, 2012 3:50 pm

Fearless6691 wrote:I really wish I could just nail down what I need to do to get stronger. I just wish their was one solid way of doing things.


Starting Strength?
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Re: Official Wendler 5/3/1

Postby Fearless6691 » Tue Jul 31, 2012 4:01 pm

Haha, touche'
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Re: Official Wendler 5/3/1

Postby TheAssassin » Tue Jul 31, 2012 4:18 pm

Fearless6691 wrote:Haha, touche'


I'm going to start it again in a month. Lasted 4 months last time before injuries/boredom/exploring messed me up.
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Re: Official Wendler 5/3/1

Postby red_donn » Tue Jul 31, 2012 11:21 pm

TheAssassin wrote:
Fearless6691 wrote:Haha, touche'


I'm going to start it again in a month. Lasted 4 months last time before injuries/boredom/exploring messed me up.


I've been doing a lot of research into linear progress programs lately - those best suited to beginners. I may be able to give you some more options that you'd be interested in.

If there's one area where SS really has an issue, it's the boredom factor. I can't believe how long I stuck out those programs, looking back at it. One of the hidden benefits of the 5/3/1 program, when the general scheme is appropriate to your lifting, is that you can cycle through at least a dozen different assistance programs (Boring But Big, Simple Strength, Bodybuilding, etc) while maintaining the same progression on the big lifts. The most ADD lifters possible could go a whole year without ever doing exactly the same sets/reps/exercises on a given day, but still progress on their big four lifts.

Along with Starting Strength, there is the Greyskull Linear Progression and a slew of programs focused on sets of 5 that could be used. Combine these with Dan John's "Rule of 5," and you can actually create a lot of variety. I'll write something up on it very soon.
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Re: Official Wendler 5/3/1

Postby Fearless6691 » Wed Aug 01, 2012 1:12 pm

Monday
• SOHP - 5/3/1
• Chin Ups - (SS)
• SOHP drop set - 1 x 10
• Dumbbell shoulder press - 5 x 10
• Barbell curls - 5 x 10
• DRR/DLR (SS) - 3 x 10
Tuesday
• Deadlift - 5/3/1 sets/reps¬¬
• Good morning - 4 x 10
• Bent over rows - 4 x 10
• Leg curls - 4 x 12
• Abdominal wheel - 4 x 10
Thursday
• Bench press - 5/3/1 sets
• Pull ups - (SS)
• Dumbbell bench press - 5 x 10
• Incline Bench - 5 x 10
• Triceps push-downs - 100
• Face pulls - 100
Friday
• Squat - 5/3/1
• Squat - 1 x 20
• Leg press - 4 x 10
• Calf raises - 4 x 10
• Hanging leg raises - 4 x 10

This is what I am doing now.. I am thinking about making it into the 3 day beginner split. I just don't know what I am going to drop and how I want to rearrange. SS is boring, but effective. I just hate lifting the same weights everyday and hitting a plateau quick. I felt like I was just bashing my skull on the bench press.
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Re: Official Wendler 5/3/1

Postby TheAssassin » Wed Aug 01, 2012 7:56 pm

red_donn wrote:
TheAssassin wrote:
Fearless6691 wrote:Haha, touche'


I'm going to start it again in a month. Lasted 4 months last time before injuries/boredom/exploring messed me up.


I've been doing a lot of research into linear progress programs lately - those best suited to beginners. I may be able to give you some more options that you'd be interested in.

If there's one area where SS really has an issue, it's the boredom factor. I can't believe how long I stuck out those programs, looking back at it. One of the hidden benefits of the 5/3/1 program, when the general scheme is appropriate to your lifting, is that you can cycle through at least a dozen different assistance programs (Boring But Big, Simple Strength, Bodybuilding, etc) while maintaining the same progression on the big lifts. The most ADD lifters possible could go a whole year without ever doing exactly the same sets/reps/exercises on a given day, but still progress on their big four lifts.

Along with Starting Strength, there is the Greyskull Linear Progression and a slew of programs focused on sets of 5 that could be used. Combine these with Dan John's "Rule of 5," and you can actually create a lot of variety. I'll write something up on it very soon.


I'm not a fan of assistance work yet because 1) I enjoy the main lifts way more 2) I have limited equipment.

I'm likely going to add in some extra press/bench because those have become my favourite lifts and I'll rely on seeing the progress from those and squats to keep me to the program.

I forsee the biggest problems being scheduling. SS has you training on a MWF schedule, with a lot of work packed into one day. I enjoy going to the gym every day and being able to look forward to that, or if I'm pissed off about something I can go toss around some weight at anytime. If I'm on a strict program and I do that, it'll mess up my recovery and in extension progress.
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Re: Official Wendler 5/3/1

Postby Fearless6691 » Wed Aug 01, 2012 10:00 pm

TheAssassin wrote:
red_donn wrote:
TheAssassin wrote:
Fearless6691 wrote:Haha, touche'


I'm going to start it again in a month. Lasted 4 months last time before injuries/boredom/exploring messed me up.


I've been doing a lot of research into linear progress programs lately - those best suited to beginners. I may be able to give you some more options that you'd be interested in.

If there's one area where SS really has an issue, it's the boredom factor. I can't believe how long I stuck out those programs, looking back at it. One of the hidden benefits of the 5/3/1 program, when the general scheme is appropriate to your lifting, is that you can cycle through at least a dozen different assistance programs (Boring But Big, Simple Strength, Bodybuilding, etc) while maintaining the same progression on the big lifts. The most ADD lifters possible could go a whole year without ever doing exactly the same sets/reps/exercises on a given day, but still progress on their big four lifts.

Along with Starting Strength, there is the Greyskull Linear Progression and a slew of programs focused on sets of 5 that could be used. Combine these with Dan John's "Rule of 5," and you can actually create a lot of variety. I'll write something up on it very soon.


I'm not a fan of assistance work yet because 1) I enjoy the main lifts way more 2) I have limited equipment.

I'm likely going to add in some extra press/bench because those have become my favourite lifts and I'll rely on seeing the progress from those and squats to keep me to the program.

I forsee the biggest problems being scheduling. SS has you training on a MWF schedule, with a lot of work packed into one day. I enjoy going to the gym every day and being able to look forward to that, or if I'm pissed off about something I can go toss around some weight at anytime. If I'm on a strict program and I do that, it'll mess up my recovery and in extension progress.

You should go to the gym on your off days to do some active recovery.
I know what you mean though, I love being in the weight room. It pretty much makes my day. I train UFC on my off days bra so I always have something going on. I suggest going in on Tuesday and doing some grip work with some light cardio. Maybe a nice 30-45 min inclined walk. Thursday go in and do some plyometrics or some core training, through some skipping rope in there for some intervals.

I forget, are you a fighter?
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Re: Official Wendler 5/3/1

Postby red_donn » Wed Aug 01, 2012 11:42 pm

Fearless6691 wrote:Monday
• SOHP - 5/3/1
• Chin Ups - (SS)
• SOHP drop set - 1 x 10
• Dumbbell shoulder press - 5 x 10
• Barbell curls - 5 x 10
• DRR/DLR (SS) - 3 x 10
Tuesday
• Deadlift - 5/3/1 sets/reps¬¬
• Good morning - 4 x 10
• Bent over rows - 4 x 10
• Leg curls - 4 x 12
• Abdominal wheel - 4 x 10
Thursday
• Bench press - 5/3/1 sets
• Pull ups - (SS)
• Dumbbell bench press - 5 x 10
• Incline Bench - 5 x 10
• Triceps push-downs - 100
• Face pulls - 100
Friday
• Squat - 5/3/1
• Squat - 1 x 20
• Leg press - 4 x 10
• Calf raises - 4 x 10
• Hanging leg raises - 4 x 10

This is what I am doing now.. I am thinking about making it into the 3 day beginner split. I just don't know what I am going to drop and how I want to rearrange. SS is boring, but effective. I just hate lifting the same weights everyday and hitting a plateau quick. I felt like I was just bashing my skull on the bench press.


Okay Fearless, let me give you a hand with this.

This program looks like it is all over the place. If a powerlifter who was trying to gain weight was using this, I'd see where they are coming from. You'd make gains, of course, but that's because you are still a lifting novice - put in some halfway decent effort on anything with the big four lifts and you'll get stronger.

You are using a ton of sets of ten for assistance exercises, typically associated with bodybuilding and/or strong lifters who are bringing up weaknesses to improve lifts and avoid injuries. You are not strong enough for the latter and have said before that you don't want to gain weight. You are loading up on volume without a plan for getting stronger in the rep ranges and I don't think you've accounted for some of the differences that will make for recovery when you add in MMA training.

Super-setting pull-ups in with pressing works for some, and might even work for you, but you don't have a base of pressing success to measure it against. Once again, adding in extra volume in the midst of the workout is sometimes a good plan, but here it could be interfering with the only part of this plan that has set the progressions in weight that you need.

Right now you would get a lot more out of working on big lifts 2-4 times a week than doing 16 different lifts once a week.
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Re: Official Wendler 5/3/1

Postby red_donn » Wed Aug 01, 2012 11:49 pm

There's only two reasons why you would plateau quickly on a linear progression like starting strength right now.

1) You set the starting weights and/or the jumps in weight too high.
2) You aren't recovering (eating and sleeping) enough.

At your current weight, you should still be able to work up to roughly 1.5 x 5 in the squat on starting strength without gaining weight, so I doubt that even the eating is the question. You probably set the weight high and there's a good chance your boredom would've discouraged you from giving it your all, particularly if it got hard faster than it should have.

Let me get my "beginner's program" information compiled, and it may help you out. Boredom I can help with, while maintaining basic principles relatively well. Setting weights, of course, can be done with a calculator or a more experienced lifter's advice at the start. If you are really just chasing sexy, shiny new programs and avoiding the lifts when they get demanding, then I won't be able to help.
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Re: Official Wendler 5/3/1

Postby Fearless6691 » Thu Aug 02, 2012 3:29 am

red_donn wrote:There's only two reasons why you would plateau quickly on a linear progression like starting strength right now.

1) You set the starting weights and/or the jumps in weight too high.
2) You aren't recovering (eating and sleeping) enough.

At your current weight, you should still be able to work up to roughly 1.5 x 5 in the squat on starting strength without gaining weight, so I doubt that even the eating is the question. You probably set the weight high and there's a good chance your boredom would've discouraged you from giving it your all, particularly if it got hard faster than it should have.

Let me get my "beginner's program" information compiled, and it may help you out. Boredom I can help with, while maintaining basic principles relatively well. Setting weights, of course, can be done with a calculator or a more experienced lifter's advice at the start. If you are really just chasing sexy, shiny new programs and avoiding the lifts when they get demanding, then I won't be able to help.

Thanks for all of the advice man. Consider me your guinea pig for your routine. If you write it up I will be all about it. I got this assistance work from another website when I was trying to get a better understand of BBB. I thought it looked a little high in volume, and I wasn't a huge fan of the rep ranges or the sets.
I think I did start a little heavy and did not deload enough on SS. That being said, I am willing to give whatever you got a shot. I've pretty much determined that I am going up a weight class to 170. So I don't mind gaining about 15lbs as long as it is fairly lean seeing how I want to fight in Oct.
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Re: Official Wendler 5/3/1

Postby TheAssassin » Thu Aug 02, 2012 4:20 pm

Fighting's bad for your brain and I'd like to actually read Hegel with full comprehension one day so no. I do train here and there though.
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