Close
Login
Register

Official Wendler 5/3/1

Conditioning, one of the most important aspects of your training. Strength, everyone needs it. Discuss what works for you?

Official Wendler 5/3/1

Postby Fearless6691 » Sun Jul 08, 2012 11:01 pm

Hey guys, finally switching to Wendlers 5/3/1!
As everyone knows Jim Wendler is a greatly respected coach and brain in the S&C community.
Although he has never coached any MMA fighters, many MMA fighters that are self coached in their lifting use his program.

I've been collecting a lot of information about it for a while now. Here are some good resources.

http://www.mensfitness.com/node/52747

Here is a great source for Excel spread sheets that can be used to easily calculate your weights.

http://www.wannabebig.com/forums/showthread.php?139685-Wendler-5-3-1-Excel-Chart

Basically 5/3/1 uses slow progression to increase your numbers. Assistances work is also done. You can chose which assistance work you would like to do. I suggest boring but big.
Image
I hated every minute of training, but I said, "Don't quit.
Suffer now and live the rest of your life as a champion.
"
_________________________________Muhammad Ali
User avatar
Fearless6691
Black Belt
Black Belt
 
Posts: 2888
Joined: Thu Aug 26, 2010 12:02 pm

Re: Official Wendler 5/3/1

Postby Fearless6691 » Sun Jul 08, 2012 11:02 pm

If you guys have anything that you can add feel free!
Image
I hated every minute of training, but I said, "Don't quit.
Suffer now and live the rest of your life as a champion.
"
_________________________________Muhammad Ali
User avatar
Fearless6691
Black Belt
Black Belt
 
Posts: 2888
Joined: Thu Aug 26, 2010 12:02 pm

Re: Official Wendler 5/3/1

Postby red_donn » Mon Jul 09, 2012 12:33 am

Preface: Don't let my pessimism discourage you from carrying on. You've picked a solid program and should give it at least 3-6 months, according to Wendler. My following post is for people who are considering the program but are comparing it to programs like Starting Strenght, etc.

This is, of course, a great program. Good, basic lifts, and tons of available information about the extra 10-20% of assistance work that can be used to target hypertrophy, overall bulking, weak points, etc.

On a big picture note, the most interesting things about Wendler's program are the use of auto-regulating sets via the rep-outs and the use of monthly progression. These show that the program is geared towards slightly more advanced lifters, though beginners will also make progress.

What are your current lifts? It's a good program of course, but typically designed for either intermediates, or advanced guys who are dropping back from highly focused lifting. Remember that this program results in a monthly increase in each lift, though in a sense you are getting PR's every week after the first few months. If a more beginner-style program will drive up your strength faster, that may result in more optimal results in the long-term, so long as there isn't a period of dicking around for two months while you choose your next program.

Some of the bigger proponents of linear progression (adding weight every day or week) insist that this can be maintained much longer than most people anticipate, especially if people are willing to grind out through the pain. I know that if/when I go to drive up my squat numbers, I'm going to simply hit a daily/weekly progression again in the back squat. I figure that if I'm eating my way up to 200 (the hard part) and lifting appropriately, I should be able to get a good 350 x 5 on this if I'm healed up.

That's right - 350 for 5 in the back squat should be entirely manageable for me if I work hard and have some patience. At that time, my bodyweight would no doubt be around 200+, so I'm assuming that 1.75 times bodyweight for 5 repetitions is a doable number for a linear method. These would include Starting Strength, Texas Method, Madcow, and Starr variants.

I'd say that, before moving off of linear progression, you should be able to hit some sets of 5 with 1.5x BW squatting, 2x BW deadlifting, .75x BW military pressing, and 1.25x BW benching. These are very rough numbers, mind you, and quite possibly a little low, but linear progression should be able to get you to all of them without trouble so long as you are eating appropriately.
Liked this post? Check out the best writers from our very own Linker at "The Sheep's Pen"
User avatar
red_donn
1st Professional Linker Victory
1st Professional Linker Victory
 
Posts: 8690
Joined: Mon Apr 28, 2008 11:44 pm

Re: Official Wendler 5/3/1

Postby red_donn » Mon Jul 09, 2012 12:39 am

If you've reached an appropriate point to give Wendler's program a shot - remember that shot should be at LEAST three months.

Wendler always gives these points of advice:
1) Start with 90% of your 1 RM. The tendency to overestimate is hugely problematic in this program, because you can't quite tell until you are already two months in, and then everything falls apart. Much, much better to underestimate a bit here.

2) This program is not one that takes program hopping lightly. If you are also thinking of experimenting with the Texas Method for 2-4 weeks, a week of Bulgarian training, etc, this program will not tolerate it. You must set aside at least three months to even begin evaluating this program as it was intended to be used.

3) Don't dwell too much on your assistance work. Wendler has templates out for focused hypertrophy, weak point training, general bulking, in-season athletics, and more. If you need variety, or are shifting aims as you progress, just grab one of his templates and work from that for a month. Rotating this 10-20%, but maintaining the same core focus, can satisfy particular training needs and general ADD. This is one of the hidden gems to Wendler's program, imo.
Liked this post? Check out the best writers from our very own Linker at "The Sheep's Pen"
User avatar
red_donn
1st Professional Linker Victory
1st Professional Linker Victory
 
Posts: 8690
Joined: Mon Apr 28, 2008 11:44 pm

Re: Official Wendler 5/3/1

Postby Acepitbull » Mon Jul 09, 2012 11:11 am

It is my understanding that 5/3/1 is best suited for more intermediate to advanced lifters. Others can make better gains with Starting Strength, Starr's, and other "heavier" programs. I have not tried 5/3/1, but I've been thinking about trying it after I progress on my squat and deadlift a little more.

Here are some links that I found. The first one is great. You can print out a complete plan.

http://www.strstd.com/

http://www.t-nation.com/free_online_art ... e_strength

http://www.t-nation.com/free_online_art ... 1_reloaded

http://www.t-nation.com/free_online_art ... d_athletes

http://www.t-nation.com/free_online_art ... _challenge

http://www.t-nation.com/strength-training-topics/1316

http://articles.elitefts.com/training-a ... questions/

http://www.jimwendler.com/2011/09/531-for-a-beginner/

http://blackironbeast.com/5/3/1/calculator

http://muscleandbrawn.com/wendlers-531- ... ng-system/
Denial ain't just a river in Egypt.-Mark Twain

Our greatest glory is not in never falling but in rising every time we fall.- Confucius
User avatar
Acepitbull
Orange Belt
Orange Belt
 
Posts: 466
Joined: Tue Jul 14, 2009 9:43 am

Re: Official Wendler 5/3/1

Postby KC Masterpiece » Mon Jul 09, 2012 11:55 am

Great program, man. Stick with it for as long as you can (i.e. think months or years, not weeks). Good luck!
MurderfaceMMA wrote:A few years ago i was downloading all the UFCs from torrent sites. One day my internet was shut off, and when i called the provider, they said the UFCs lawyers called and got an injunction to shut down my internet.

ImageImage
User avatar
KC Masterpiece
Deputy Director Masterbro
 
Posts: 6667
Joined: Sun Feb 01, 2009 7:46 pm

Re: Official Wendler 5/3/1

Postby Fearless6691 » Mon Jul 09, 2012 12:56 pm

I did starting strength since November. I've stalled and deloaded 4 times.
BW 175.
Bench x 5 x 180
Squat x 5 x 205
Deadlift x 5 x 350
SOHP x 5 x 100
I like linear progression but because I am not willing to eat like a power lifter I stall quite a bit. I thought maybe Wendler would help me break some plateaus.
Image
I hated every minute of training, but I said, "Don't quit.
Suffer now and live the rest of your life as a champion.
"
_________________________________Muhammad Ali
User avatar
Fearless6691
Black Belt
Black Belt
 
Posts: 2888
Joined: Thu Aug 26, 2010 12:02 pm

Re: Official Wendler 5/3/1

Postby KC Masterpiece » Mon Jul 09, 2012 12:59 pm

Fearless6691 wrote:I thought maybe Wendler would help me break some plateaus.


It will. The only thing I can suggest is to stick to exactly what the program says even when you don't want to. Going from squatting 3x a week to once a week (and only one work set at that) will feel very weird, but keep going. Take the deload weeks as prescribed. I got creative with my conditioning and assistance and I almost never get the beaten down feeling I used to get every day with SS yet i'm still making progress.

Good choice man, stick with it.
MurderfaceMMA wrote:A few years ago i was downloading all the UFCs from torrent sites. One day my internet was shut off, and when i called the provider, they said the UFCs lawyers called and got an injunction to shut down my internet.

ImageImage
User avatar
KC Masterpiece
Deputy Director Masterbro
 
Posts: 6667
Joined: Sun Feb 01, 2009 7:46 pm

Re: Official Wendler 5/3/1

Postby Fearless6691 » Mon Jul 09, 2012 2:12 pm

KC Masterpiece wrote:
Fearless6691 wrote:I thought maybe Wendler would help me break some plateaus.


It will. The only thing I can suggest is to stick to exactly what the program says even when you don't want to. Going from squatting 3x a week to once a week (and only one work set at that) will feel very weird, but keep going. Take the deload weeks as prescribed. I got creative with my conditioning and assistance and I almost never get the beaten down feeling I used to get every day with SS yet i'm still making progress.

Good choice man, stick with it.

Thanks man, I will. It looks like it has more volume of SS so I'm pumped, I love to be in the weight room lifting. The only thing that sucks is I'm lifting at an invite only gym with no lifting partners, how am I supposed to bench??
Image
I hated every minute of training, but I said, "Don't quit.
Suffer now and live the rest of your life as a champion.
"
_________________________________Muhammad Ali
User avatar
Fearless6691
Black Belt
Black Belt
 
Posts: 2888
Joined: Thu Aug 26, 2010 12:02 pm

Re: Official Wendler 5/3/1

Postby KC Masterpiece » Mon Jul 09, 2012 2:47 pm

Well it should actually be substantially less volume than SS... do you have the e-book? You should get it if you don't.

Re benching, you won't be anywhere near your max for several months, so there should be reason why you'd have difficulty benching. Just listen to your body and when you feel yourself start to fail on a rep, either go for one more or rack it after finishing the rep.
MurderfaceMMA wrote:A few years ago i was downloading all the UFCs from torrent sites. One day my internet was shut off, and when i called the provider, they said the UFCs lawyers called and got an injunction to shut down my internet.

ImageImage
User avatar
KC Masterpiece
Deputy Director Masterbro
 
Posts: 6667
Joined: Sun Feb 01, 2009 7:46 pm

Re: Official Wendler 5/3/1

Postby Fearless6691 » Mon Jul 09, 2012 5:08 pm

KC Masterpiece wrote:Well it should actually be substantially less volume than SS... do you have the e-book? You should get it if you don't.

Re benching, you won't be anywhere near your max for several months, so there should be reason why you'd have difficulty benching. Just listen to your body and when you feel yourself start to fail on a rep, either go for one more or rack it after finishing the rep.

I mean how do you unrack the weight? I'm sure it won't be too hard for the first few months.
I have the power lifting addition, not the regular one. I've read it all, I have a pretty solid understanding of the lifts.
I was talking about the assistance works and the 5x10s
Image
I hated every minute of training, but I said, "Don't quit.
Suffer now and live the rest of your life as a champion.
"
_________________________________Muhammad Ali
User avatar
Fearless6691
Black Belt
Black Belt
 
Posts: 2888
Joined: Thu Aug 26, 2010 12:02 pm

Re: Official Wendler 5/3/1

Postby Fearless6691 » Mon Jul 09, 2012 5:25 pm

What assistance did you do when you did this?
Image
I hated every minute of training, but I said, "Don't quit.
Suffer now and live the rest of your life as a champion.
"
_________________________________Muhammad Ali
User avatar
Fearless6691
Black Belt
Black Belt
 
Posts: 2888
Joined: Thu Aug 26, 2010 12:02 pm

Re: Official Wendler 5/3/1

Postby KC Masterpiece » Mon Jul 09, 2012 6:00 pm

Just unrack it? lol not sure what you mean there. Do you not have a bench or squat rack to hold the bar in? You only need a lift off for true max effort work, or around 95% at most. Set it to a height so that it's only about an inch or two down from your lockout position and unracking will be no problem. Watch Dave Tate's So You Think You Can Bench video for how to unrack properly.

For my assistance, I do 3x10 on two exercises each day. I'm doing 3x10 instead of 5x10 or 15 or 20 because my focus is on conditioning, not size. IT's basically the NOV template with slightly less assistance work because I'm doing 2x/day conditioning.

For bench I superset the main bench set with pull ups, then do 3x10 barbell rows and 3x10 dumbbell overhead press (I do DB bench on OHP days).
MurderfaceMMA wrote:A few years ago i was downloading all the UFCs from torrent sites. One day my internet was shut off, and when i called the provider, they said the UFCs lawyers called and got an injunction to shut down my internet.

ImageImage
User avatar
KC Masterpiece
Deputy Director Masterbro
 
Posts: 6667
Joined: Sun Feb 01, 2009 7:46 pm

Re: Official Wendler 5/3/1

Postby TheAssassin » Mon Jul 09, 2012 9:04 pm

When you unrack make sure to not push up as much as you put out. Pushing up spreads your back out on the bench, messing up technique. I'm unracked pushing a few times, and the difference is so noticeable I had to rack, reposition and go again. but maybe, that's just my OCD as a lifter. I had to deadlift on inch thick bumper plates for the floors sake once. That fucked up my rhythm. I was benching on a 2 inch shorter bench once; I couldn't get a solid arch and that fucked up everything.
User avatar
TheAssassin
4th Professional Linker Victory
4th Professional Linker Victory
 
Posts: 11517
Joined: Thu Mar 06, 2008 8:44 pm
Location: Mundane Ejaculation Man

Re: Official Wendler 5/3/1

Postby Fearless6691 » Mon Jul 09, 2012 10:12 pm

KC Masterpiece wrote:Just unrack it? lol not sure what you mean there. Do you not have a bench or squat rack to hold the bar in? You only need a lift off for true max effort work, or around 95% at most. Set it to a height so that it's only about an inch or two down from your lockout position and unracking will be no problem. Watch Dave Tate's So You Think You Can Bench video for how to unrack properly.

For my assistance, I do 3x10 on two exercises each day. I'm doing 3x10 instead of 5x10 or 15 or 20 because my focus is on conditioning, not size. IT's basically the NOV template with slightly less assistance work because I'm doing 2x/day conditioning.

For bench I superset the main bench set with pull ups, then do 3x10 barbell rows and 3x10 dumbbell overhead press (I do DB bench on OHP days).

I guess it does sound kind of silly. I don't like to set right under the weights, I like being a little further down on the bench. I'm going to try to move up a little more and watch the unracking video.
Are you doing hill sprints for conditioning? Boring but big is just a 3x10 of 50% of your working weight with the daily main lift correct?
TheAssassin wrote:When you unrack make sure to not push up as much as you put out. Pushing up spreads your back out on the bench, messing up technique. I'm unracked pushing a few times, and the difference is so noticeable I had to rack, reposition and go again. but maybe, that's just my OCD as a lifter. I had to deadlift on inch thick bumper plates for the floors sake once. That fucked up my rhythm. I was benching on a 2 inch shorter bench once; I couldn't get a solid arch and that fucked up everything.

Lol well OCD when lifting is a good thing. You're eliminating differences to continue your consistency, which is great lol!
Tested my 1RM for SOHP today and I was actually much higher then before. 130!
Image
I hated every minute of training, but I said, "Don't quit.
Suffer now and live the rest of your life as a champion.
"
_________________________________Muhammad Ali
User avatar
Fearless6691
Black Belt
Black Belt
 
Posts: 2888
Joined: Thu Aug 26, 2010 12:02 pm

Next

Return to Conditioning and Strength Training

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users