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Official Religion Thread

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Re: Official Religion Thread

Postby Shaka Zulu » Tue Dec 22, 2009 2:56 pm

Pretty deep shit right there, and I can't blame you for feeling that way. I've been there too, all the violence, starvation, and deciet. There is no wonder why someone can see a godless world. In the past, people had prophets to show them signs and even those people didn't believe. So how are we gonna believe from books and stories alone?

And you're right, no one can speak with certainty of the afterlife. If they do, they're lying. Now, as far as proof that God exists is a different story, but it takes perception to see this. I'm gonna relate to you my story andthe stages I went through until I accepted Islam. I'l try to keep it short, but this might be long.

First, since I was able to comprehend things, I always had a sense that we had a creator. Now this is something that we don't see eye to eye on which is " signs of God". The way I see it; the perfect construction of universe, the stars, the many galaxies, water, plants, all different types of fruits, night and day, the compexity and mystery of the human brain, life and death, the beauty of a woman, the beauty of horses, tigers, insects, the fact that there is a cure for evey disease, the fact that we are mere earthly particles without the soul, , the fact that we are mere germs on a pebble of sand being hurled into complete nothingness with all the other celestial bodies, SOMEONE HAS TO BE GUIDING THIS SHIP, the fact that all this started out smaller than an atom, dreams, happiness and sadness, the fact that there is an opposite for everything, the anatomy of the human, the fact that EVERYTHING will parish. I can go on and on, but like I said, all these signs are within eye of the beholder. Some see it, some don't. Now, having said that, though I believed in a higher power, I wondered," If there is a God, how come this world is so evil?"

Stage 2: now that I recognized there's a God, I looked up the major religions in the world to see what they talk about. Judiasm, Christianity, Islam, Buddhism, and Hinduism. These are the major religions of the world and Christianity and Islam were the 2 largest ones. So I asked myself," If there is a God, how would His message to mankind be like?" What would He be telling us and why would He allow so much evil to persist. Hinduism and Buddism date so far back that I felt it would be irrelevant to our times and their beliefs, in my opinion, are shrouded with folklore. So, I studied up on the Abrahamic religions and it slowly started to make sense so I saw the similarities within them and used my reasoning. Moses was sent to the Children of Isreal for them only so this cancelled Judaism out because I'm not from the Children of Isreal. Same with Christianity; Jesus even said himself," I am sent to the lost sheep of Isreal. " also, I thought to myself," If there were a power as great as God, who created everything, why would He share His dominion, let alone have a child with His creation?" It didn't make sense to me. That and for the fact that the Bible has been changed so much through the hands of men, so how can you consider this book as purely Divine. Then came Islam. The way God gives parables in the Quran, the descriptions of God in there, the notion that He is Who He is, and we are nothing but His creation, the notion that MEN were sent as prophets, not divine beings, because how are we supposed to mimick spritual beings if they're created perfect? A cat can't teach a dog to be a dog. The portrayal that even the prophets were subject to hardship and in all honesty, had worse lives then us. The fact that," If you believe there's a God, shouldn't there be a way to worship Him?" And what better way to show humility to God than to prostrate yourself and submit to His will(I.e. the 5 daily prayers). By the way, if Christians really want to follow their own teachings, they would see that, even in the Bible, there are descriptions of the prophets and saints" prostrating to worship God" much like the Muslims do. How come they don't do this? Also, Jesus fasted much like Muslims, why don't they do that either?

All of a sudden the pieces to the puzzle were coming together. Before this I had no idea these religions were connected together. I believe if Christians read their books correctly, they would become Muslim. There are many verses in the Bible that predict Mohammad's coming. The most intriguing is Dueteronomy 18:18. I'll save that one for later, but besides that I saw the Islamic teachings as the most comprehenive, because it removes all the innovation and biasness of the other religions, and breaks it down to it's purest form. Not once did Jesus say,"worship me". On the contrary, he was proclaiming to worship God.

Thus, all this taught me to read between the lines. Why is there so much evil in the world? Well, what's the significance of good without evil. What's the significance of health without pain. What's the significance of happiness without sadness. We need pain and suffering to recognize the good. Pain is a better teacher than any book or human. We need it to become stronger. Books can't teach you with these things. And the thing with your son, well I'm sure he got rewarded double time for his incident so it was probably a good thing. Not only that, it will only make him stronger. There's a verse in the Quran that says," Allah never places a burden on a soul that it cannot handle." This makes so much sense to me. I'm sure there are things that you go through that I wouldn't be able to bear and vice versa. That's why we shouldn't be judgemental. Everyone has their own struggles but no matter what it is, we have the ability to overcome them, which in turn makes us stronger. I've struggled a lot in my life and you know what, I love every bit of it. These lessons you learn from them are something money can't buy. I actually feel sorry for people who haven't tasted the struggle. They don't know what their missing. All in all, the way God is described in the Quran, the connection of these religions and how the prophecies are clear, and leading to the advent of Mohammad led me to Islam. The struggles he had to endure, the wars where they were outnumbered and still prevailed, and the fact that this message is only getting bigger and bigger, well, it was just plain reasoning that brought me to my conclusion. Mohammad couldn't have accomplished what he did without divine help. If you learn about his life, you'll be amazed by his story. I'l give you a brief summary.

He wasborn in 570A.D., his father died before his birth, his mom died when he was 6. He was raised by his grandfather and sent to live with a bedoin family which, by their accounts, wherever he went, he was blessed. He always disliked idol worshipping, and never worshipped them. Before prophethood he was known as the most trustworthy of his tribe. At 40, he claimed that Angel Gabriel came to him commanding him to read, though he didn't know the idea of who Gabriel was and didnt know what it was about. When he told his wife of what happened, she took him to her geandfather who knew of the Jewish scripture and automatically knew he was the prohet predicted in those books. He was quotes as saying," I wish I was young so I can help you fight when your people will turn against you." He knew about how a message like this divided the people and Mohammad, being a human, was scared of this. He had no knowledge of prophethood and at first didn't want any part of it, but God revealed to him that" I am with you" and to "put his trust in Him". Now, in the OT, it states that if a person claims to be a prophet and predicts things that don't happen, then he is a false prophet and "should be killed". Everything Mohammad predicted came true and there were MANY attempts made on his life but were unsuccessful. If he was a false prophet, he would've been killed, that is if you acknowledge the OT claims. REASONING. This is what I used to come to my conclusion.

I've rambled a little too long but I'll end with this. Prophet Mohammad was the first person ever to be named Mohammad. His name means"eternaly praised". There is not a single person in this world that lived up to the meaning of their name like Mohammad has. There isn't a single person throughout mankind that is praised more than Mohammad. Muslims praise him 5 times a day in the obligatory prayers, EVERY SINGLE DAY, by billions of Muslims. Do you know anyone that comes close to this. Even Micheal Hart, a Christian, wrote a book on " The 100 Most Influential People in Mankind". Mohammad was #1, Paul #2, Jesus#3. Remember now, Mohammad couldn't read nor write; for him to produce a book( the Quran) and not even claim to be the author, but God, and for it to have an impact as great as it has on the world, from an illiterate man, 1400 years ago, in the middle of the desert, well, what can I say? I'm convinced.

Until next time, Merry Christmas, Happy Hannukah, Happy Quanza, and Happy Ham Sandwichmas!!!! :biggrin:
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Re: Official Religion Thread

Postby NoneSoVile » Wed Dec 23, 2009 1:16 pm

:lol: The hamsandwich gods are pleased with you Shaka. Two sesame seed angels spoke to me lastnight in a dream, they said the world will be covered in mayonaise in 2012. Repent sinners! I'm going to paint my face with mustard and sacrifice (eat) a hamburger tonight in an attempt to appease the gods angers. I suggest you all read the nutrition information daily and pray for salvation. There is an empty void in all of us, only the mighty hamsandwhich can fill it!!!!

The weird thing is, if you merely edit out the hamsandwhich references, that statement would look very realistic to the majority. Which is funny and scary at the same time :D
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Re: Official Religion Thread

Postby NoneSoVile » Sat Dec 26, 2009 11:44 pm

The great Hamsandwhich (Which is ironically born on Decemeber 25th like the majority of messiahs) brang me a new Xbox game this year, All hail the mighty meat god.
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Re: Official Religion Thread

Postby Shaka Zulu » Sun Dec 27, 2009 2:42 pm

:lol: I see your hamsandwich god has fallen victim to the commercialization of his own holiday also.

Man that religious thread got locked pretty fast. But did you notice many of the responses from Christians. They were all very similar in regards that religion has replaced faith. This is what I was trying to point out and, the Christians I speak to that convrted to Islam have very similar stories.

Like I said, the problem isn't religion, its the people who try to put it in "their own words" instead of letting the teachings speak for themselves. That, and trying to interpret things they don't understand and end up contradicting themselves, and instead of admitting they were wrong, they try to prove they're right and have to go along with their conjecture. This is a major sin. Also, like I said before, there were WAY more gospels than the ones in the NT, so tell me, who has the right to ommit the other ones and what's their reason. I can only think of one. To cover up something they don't want people to find out. A shephard never wants to lose his sheep.

Islam is the final piece to the puzzle. It was sent to restore the original teachings of the OT and NT and place religion where it should have always been; in the individual's heart. Religion isn't something someone can teach or show you, it's the teaching's of them and the individual's understanding of it. I don't rely on any man for enlightenment, and like Sarah and Blacksheep said, my connection is with God, not religion. This is the sole point of Islam. People should stop worshipping the religion and worship God instead.

Hope Blacksheep joins this thread, I'd love to have his input also because he seems like a very intellectual person.
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Re: Official Religion Thread

Postby NoneSoVile » Sun Dec 27, 2009 3:41 pm

Yes Shaka, unfortunately commercialization has even corrupted my great and all knowing ham sandwhich... :lol:

Good point though man. Finding god and being religious are very different things. I respect a person who goes on their own journey and finds something that fits them. I hope a few linkers read up on our discussions and give us their input. This thread is a very good way to compare notes on our various faiths/disciplines/beliefs etc.

You think Islam is the last peice to the puzzle? I think atheism removes the puzzle :D

Also Shaka, how were your holidays? I know you fairly recently became a muslim, just wondering if you still did the christmas tree/santa thing? (If you don't mind me asking)
I'm an atheist but I still did the santa claus thing. Christmas is about family, friends, food, booze, gifts and fun! Church? Praying? I got drunk, played taboo with friends and had a laugh :biggrin:

Jehovah Witnesses don't recognize ANY holidays....Isn't that fucked up? Nothing wrong with being modest and anti-materialistic, but atleast have family/friend gatherings that don't involved bible readings! Hope you had a good Xmas Shaka (if you celebrated it)
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Re: Official Religion Thread

Postby Shaka Zulu » Sun Dec 27, 2009 5:49 pm

Thanks dude. Atleast we can agree on some things. I don't mind you asking me things, on the contrary I appreciate it.

Like I said before, I am Arabic, and like many Arabic households, they're "muslims". The reason I say "muslims" in this case is because many people think Arab=Muslim. This is a dead wrong stereotype. Even Arabs that I know, who don't pray or know anything about Islam, but they gamble, cheat on their wives, and just all around douche bags will say " I'm a muslim". Really? And then there are some Arabic households who beat Islam into their children, make them memorise the entire Quran, but, when you ask these kids to explain what they recited, you'll see complete emptiness in their eyes, not knowing a blatant thing they just said. And thus, the cycle goes on with their children, and their children's children and so on. This method is in all religions.

Now, my parents were a little different. My dad doesn't pray, but my mom does. When we were little, we went to Sunday school to learn about Islam, but me and my 4 brothers would terrorize the kids there and never took it seriously. We would pray and fast sometimes but we knew nothing about what we were doing. If you want to laugh, I used to think Santa was racist of Arabs. Any way, as I got older, though I believed in God, I saw religion as a joke and stopped doing things I didn't understand ( fasting, praying, etc.) My parents weren't really strict on us about religion, though they would try to scare us with the Heaven and Hell drama. Also, sadly, they would tell us some things were forbidden in Islam when they really weren't. One example, they said we weren't allowed to marry outside of our race. That never made sense to me and, when I learned about Islam on my own, I found out we're encouraged to marry far outside of our race, and that no race is forbidden for us to marry. You see what I mean about people adding to religion. That's the kind of stuff that turned me away.

But as I got older, and life's "shit" started being thrown at me, I decided to take the journey on my own. The existence of God wasn't a question for me. The question was, where does the truth lie? Like I said before, common-sense wise and faith-wise, one God seems more plausible to me than multiple gods. One example I use, if a power as great as a god, disagrees with another god on a matter, it can only lead to total destruction. So, out of all the monotheistic religions, Islam made the most sense to me. And trust me, I'm not saying this because I'm Arabic. I studied a good amount of Judaism and Christianity, and saw that if you remove all the innovation from them, and look at the basis and foundations of them, you'l see that they would be Islam in their purity. Islam isn't here to disprove those religions, but to confirm them and restore their teachings.

Now, to answer your question, our holidays are Ramadan and Eid. Ramadan, basically, is the month of which the Quran was revealed to Mohammad. We fast from sun up to sun down and is meant for various meanings. To feel the hunger the poor feel, learn about patience, restraint, and a cleansing of the soul. When I was young, I only saw that it was torture, but as I got older and had more understanding, I saw the wisdom behind it and would recommend even an atheist to try it. Also, the Eid is usually right after Ramadan, and is a day to meet with family, celebrate the finishing of Ramadan, and to give to the needy. But, eventually I see it becoming commercialized as well.

The puzzle that I was referring to was the puzzle of the three Abrahamic religions. I believe Islam is the final piece to that puzze. I think your piece of the puzzle would lie within the puzzle of the existence of god and the meaning as to why we are here, which in my opinion, there are way too many pieces that point to a Supreme Creator. Now, as to why we are here, though religion should explain, is open for interpretation and is within the eye of the beholder. I'll stop there and I wish you a happy new year,( if you don't respond until then) :D
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Re: Official Religion Thread

Postby NoneSoVile » Thu Dec 31, 2009 1:33 am

Pardon my error Shaka, I could have sworn you said you've recently became Muslim. Thanks for the clarification.
Cheers man, have a good new years! Here's the best of Christopher Hitchens! Brilliant guy, doesn't give a fuck :lol:

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Re: Official Religion Thread

Postby Shaka Zulu » Thu Dec 31, 2009 1:34 pm

:Holy: :Holy:

Man that guy doesn't sugar coat any of his feelings. I've got nothing but respect for people who speak for what they believe in. If you feel conviction, let it be, and don't hide it. And if his accusations are true about the guy he was talking about than I agree with his exposing of him. Religous figures have the trust of their students and followers and for them to breach that trust is morally and religously abhorant. In our beliefs, these people are one of the first 3 people to be admitted to hell fire. Speaking of hell fire, I don't believe that in our faith it says people in paradise get to see people in hell fire. We're told that niether people will see each other. It just wouldn't seem "blissful", should I say, that people in paradise would get to see people being tortured.

I'm definitely interested in reading his book. I like to hear arguments from all sides of things and this dude seems off the chain. Thanks for the video.

One last thing, I hope you see that, just because I'm Arabic, I was biased in my choice for Islam. There is an upside to being raised in two different cultures. I am among the first generation of my family's lineage to be born and raised in America. If you haven't been torn between two cultures, let me tell you, it ain't easy. My parents tried to keep us strictly in their culture, but how can you pretend like a sheep amongst wolves. In other words, how is it possible for someone to tell you,"Reside in the water, but stay dry." It was hard on me groing up and, to be honest, I hardly live the culture of my parents. Truthfully, I suck at speaking Arabic, but, for the love of the beauty of how Quran is recited, I taught myself to read and recite Quran in Arabic and comprehend what I'm saying at the same time. I Am My Own Teacher.

Happy New Year None, and everyone who reads this. We're all here together. Hope this coming year is better for me and all of you. 8)
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Re: Official Religion Thread

Postby Shaka Zulu » Thu Dec 31, 2009 9:49 pm

Also, I wanted to show you an example of someone who, unlike me, was raised in a very American family that set out for knowledge. Sorry I dont know how to imbed.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yyJn47AsIH8
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Re: Official Religion Thread

Postby NoneSoVile » Sun Jan 03, 2010 2:54 am

Enjoy the master at work. Probably the only person in the media I actually admired growing up.

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Re: Official Religion Thread

Postby maciejkargol » Sun Jan 03, 2010 3:27 pm

I'm a catholic. I go to church on Sundays when I'm not at college. But currently religion isn't a big part of my life cause I just wanna go crazy at school.
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Re: Official Religion Thread

Postby Shaka Zulu » Sun Jan 03, 2010 5:13 pm

maciejkargol wrote:I'm a catholic. I go to church on Sundays when I'm not at college. But currently religion isn't a big part of my life cause I just wanna go crazy at school.


Damn it I wanted to post the 100th post on this thread. :( So, do you mean go crazy as in "crazy party" or "crazy" as in, you're gonna lose your mind?

By the way None, I'm a big fan of George as well. He's about as real as they come and he's hilarious. I agree with almost everything he talks about save some things he says about God (obviously) but that doesn't get in the way of my respect for him.

Welcome to the thread macie.
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Re: Official Religion Thread

Postby maciejkargol » Sun Jan 03, 2010 6:22 pm

shaka zulu wrote:
maciejkargol wrote:I'm a catholic. I go to church on Sundays when I'm not at college. But currently religion isn't a big part of my life cause I just wanna go crazy at school.


Damn it I wanted to post the 100th post on this thread. :( So, do you mean go crazy as in "crazy party" or "crazy" as in, you're gonna lose your mind?

By the way None, I'm a big fan of George as well. He's about as real as they come and he's hilarious. I agree with almost everything he talks about save some things he says about God (obviously) but that doesn't get in the way of my respect for him.

Welcome to the thread macie.

crazy as in party and drink and get hammered. Eventually I'll mature and calm down and become more spiritual but now is not the time.
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Re: Official Religion Thread

Postby Shaka Zulu » Sun Jan 03, 2010 6:54 pm

maciejkargol wrote:
shaka zulu wrote:
maciejkargol wrote:I'm a catholic. I go to church on Sundays when I'm not at college. But currently religion isn't a big part of my life cause I just wanna go crazy at school.


Damn it I wanted to post the 100th post on this thread. :( So, do you mean go crazy as in "crazy party" or "crazy" as in, you're gonna lose your mind?

By the way None, I'm a big fan of George as well. He's about as real as they come and he's hilarious. I agree with almost everything he talks about save some things he says about God (obviously) but that doesn't get in the way of my respect for him.

Welcome to the thread macie.

crazy as in party and drink and get hammered. Eventually I'll mature and calm down and become more spiritual but now is not the time.


Very understandable. What makes me laugh are the people who try to live both lives. I believe, unless you're willing to commit atleast 90%, then what's the point. As for me, I gave up the partying and stuff when I was like 24, not for religious purposes, but kind of grew out of it. That doesn't mean temptation doesn't linger in my mind at times. I used to think I could "get it out of my system", especially when it comes to women, but trust me, its not that simple. Its all about restraint. I am no saint by a long shot, but try my best.
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Re: Official Religion Thread

Postby maciejkargol » Sun Jan 03, 2010 6:58 pm

shaka zulu wrote:
maciejkargol wrote:
shaka zulu wrote:
maciejkargol wrote:I'm a catholic. I go to church on Sundays when I'm not at college. But currently religion isn't a big part of my life cause I just wanna go crazy at school.


Damn it I wanted to post the 100th post on this thread. :( So, do you mean go crazy as in "crazy party" or "crazy" as in, you're gonna lose your mind?

By the way None, I'm a big fan of George as well. He's about as real as they come and he's hilarious. I agree with almost everything he talks about save some things he says about God (obviously) but that doesn't get in the way of my respect for him.

Welcome to the thread macie.

crazy as in party and drink and get hammered. Eventually I'll mature and calm down and become more spiritual but now is not the time.


Very understandable. What makes me laugh are the people who try to live both lives. I believe, unless you're willing to commit atleast 90%, then what's the point. As for me, I gave up the partying and stuff when I was like 24, not for religious purposes, but kind of grew out of it. That doesn't mean temptation doesn't linger in my mind at times. I used to think I could "get it out of my system", especially when it comes to women, but trust me, its not that simple. Its all about restraint. I am no saint by a long shot, but try my best.

Also I have a girlfriend and we are sexually active. So whats the point of going to confession saying I had sex before marriage every week so I can receive communion when I'm obviously not sorry for it and going to do it again.
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