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Official Religion Thread

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Re: Official Religion Thread

Postby NoneSoVile » Thu Dec 17, 2009 12:54 pm

Glad to see you brought this thread back shaka!
I think it's impossible for a group of people to just magically appear on the earth and inbreed their way to global dominance. There's alot of physical differences in human beings, skin color, nose, eyes etc. and these differences would have taken extremely long periods of time and isolation. If the human race did come from a single pair, we would mostly likely all look the same, speak the same language etc. For me, it seems the only logical choice would be the human race across the globe evolved in a similar way, from similar common ancestors. Since our environments were different during these changes, human beings look alot differnt.

Yes Darwin did believe in god, but he wasn't religious. Just like the founding fathers of the united states, they did think there was a creator (some didn't), but they had no interest in religion. Many of them actually spoke negatively about organized religions. Scientists today know why and how we evolved, through various modern day tests they understand the process of evolution at a cellular level. They understand how positive mutations can occur, benefit the host, and be passed on to offspring. Intelligent design cannot be proven, nor tested because it's negative-science. Their entire argument is based on "God did it, it says so in the bible". They have no facts, no hypothesis and nobody is actively pursuing information on it. It's hard for me to understand how religious people can point out flaws in other peoples religious, but fail to see similar faults in their own.

There's nothing wrong with believing in a higher power, but is it truly necessary to include a religion to become closer to god? Other people's ideas, other peoples feelings cannot make you closer to god. It should be personal, you should come to terms on your faith. That's the great thing about not being religious, you can have your own special relationship with god, based on your own terms. Just my opinion on it, I have a few friends who are against religion, but have a healthy self-sustaining relationship with their creator. I can appreciate your ideas on the power of one...but for me, everything starts with two...The human being, two reproductive cells (sperm + egg) Flowers, again two cells meeting (pollen + seed) Which are amazing systems but for me...I still cannot see a god creating this, only the incredibley complex weave called life. Water was created slowly as the earth formed an atmosphere. There was no water during the big bang, only the raw molecular materials (Carbon, nickel etc.) were present.

Here's the problem with me admiring a car like a human brain. The car is beautiful yet inorganic, I know it has a creator because I've seen him. I admire the human brain and the brilliant minds that discovered the various parts of the automobile, working together in unison, giving us a beautiful car to drive. I don't see how god comes into play with a human being creating an automobile though.

You're right Shaka, noone knows how we got here. "We only know that God created Adam and Eve" Sorry to say it man, but we don't know this. It holds as much evidence as my idea of a giant ham sandwhich creating the human race from one of it's magical sesame seeds falling off it's cosmic bun. I don't mean to offend, and if these ideas give you a peace of mind, then I certainly do not want you to stop. Everything you've spoken of, is someone else's views on this. The book you consult for spiritual guidance was written by someone you've never met a long time ago. I agree though, life isn't complicated. We're born, we die and somewhere around the middle we have a good time. That's it. Instead of trying to figure out the beginning and the end, we should be focused on the middle. Let scientists getting paid large salaries figure that shit out. For us common folk, we should be having a good time living our short lives. People need to focus on important things, family, friends, money and taking care of yourself. Don't seek rewards from a cosmic creator after death, if you want something get off your knees and make it happen while you're still breathing. No need to get all fucked up on where we go when we die, you'll figure it out when you get there. Sit back, relax and enjoy the ride. No offense intended!
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Re: Official Religion Thread

Postby Shaka Zulu » Thu Dec 17, 2009 3:02 pm

Welcome back dude, been waiting on your response. Believe me in no way have you offended me and I appreciate your respectfulness. Also, yeah I thought about water before the big bang and was gonna edit what I wrote but whatever.

I'm glad that you pointed out that religion should be an individual thing. That is exactly what Islam preaches about. You know the problem I have with some religous people. Instead of worshopping God, they worship the religion itself. In other words, they learn about scripture, not for enlightenment, but for the purpose of " being better than others" instead of actually following the teachings. Also, I believe when you put a title on something, automatically it brings criticism to it. Islam basically means " peaceful submission" to God. That's it. People who believe in God and do right but have no religion, we consider them "hanifa" muslims. This basically means they are muslims at heart but have no religion. Abraham was considered one of these. At a young age, before prophethood, he recognized God instead of the idols his dad worshipped. I guaruntee there are many people like this.

Also I'd like to add that Islam does not try to disprove other religions, or atleast the Abrahamic religions( Judaism,Christianity). On the contrary, it is meant to confirm the scriptures were books of God. The reason we don't follow these books is because they've been altered very much from their original forms. Christians can attest to this. The Quran was revealed in Arabic, written in that form, and is still in that form. It was meant to restore the original teaches of Moses, Jesus, Abraham and all the other prophets, therefor, you will see similarities in these three religions. The issue of Jesus is what divides them. Judaism don't recognize him as anything, Christianity views him as Son of God, born of a virgin, died on the cross, and is the Messiah; Islam views him as a prophet of God, not son of God, was born of a virgin and is the Messiah. I'll save the debate about Jesus but would like to note; you have The Old Testament, The New Testament, so consider the Quran The Final Testament. Did you know many Jews flocked to Mecca and Medina before Mohammad's birth because their scripture predicted the coming of a prophet in either of these 2 cities. The night he was born there are witness accounts of Jews dancing in the street rejoicing that the prophet was born. When they learned that he was Arabic, they didn't want to believe in him, though he was what they had been waiting for.

To fully understand Islam, one must learn the life of Prophet Mohammad. Arabs in his time knew nothing about scripture, prophethood, or anything on the subject. Therefor, when he proclaimed prophethood, Jews and Christians would ask him stories and things in their books that only a prophet would know. Not only did he relate to them the stories in exact detail, he told them things they didn't know ( look up chapter 18 The Cave) and still didn't believe in him, though there were some that did. Also, look up the letter he sent to Heraclius, the Roman Emporer. Heraclius asked questions about him in regards if he was a real prophet or not. I guaruntee you'll find this interesting. Its too long for me to post, but I pray that you look it up.

The Quran can't be read as a traditional book because some verses were revealed before others and you have to know when they were revealed and during what time in Mohammad's life. Some were revealed to him pertaining to war when they were in battle, some during when he fled to Medina, and some in Mecca. A great deal of the Quran, God is talking to Jews, Christians, and all of mankind. And for people who say the Quran is biased; did you know the most mentioned prophet in their is Moses, who was from the children of Isreal. The woman held highest in honor is Mary, also a Jew. Doesn't seem that biased to me.

Again, you still haven't convinced me that we couldn't have come from a single pair. Though we look different, we're still the same species. I've seen twins that look nothing alike. Like you said, different parts of the world, our appearances change. Are you saying that miraculously, separate cells all evolved on their own and amazingly formed like each other and we're able to reproduce together. Also the thing about the ham sandwich, well that's a created thing so it can't be God. One thing God can't do is create another god, for if it's created, it ain't God because He wasn't created. I know what you intended by saying this but I figured id answer it anyway. But I agree with you on one point; if you want something you have to go out and get it. Just like a bird has to search for food, we have to search for our provisions. This is ordained by God. But all in all it is He who provides for us.

Again, id like to say, these are my views; no one else's, though they may be similar to others. And yes there are people who believe in God but don't practice religion because well, who doesn't want to live life carefree, sleep with many women, and not worry about the consequences. Temptation is hard to resist, but that's the test. Life seems long but it's not if you think about it. It all comes down to the importance of patience and faith. Yes, its impossible to believe we magically appeared on earth and such and( I'm not trying to sound like the" cuz God did it " people) but it's true. It couldn't have happened just out of coincidence. If that was the case, how come Iron molecules can't fuse together, mutate, and evolve into the Empire State building. The compexity of the DNA strand is too great to be "coincidence".

Before I drag on too long, I'll end with this. Science should be important to us. Anyone who rejects science, rejects Gods commands to "ask those endued with knowledge" on any matter. Sadly, not too many people know that the Islamic Golden Age paved the way to many scientific discoveries and I will talk about this in another post. How come people don't talk about these things is mind boggling to me but whatever. Lastly, yes, religion should be a personal thing, not what someone teaches you. They won't help you on Day of Judgement, everyone is responsible for his\her own actions.

P.S. NoneSoVile, though I don't know you personally, I'm adding you to my "buddy list" 8)
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Re: Official Religion Thread

Postby NoneSoVile » Sat Dec 19, 2009 10:24 am

Awesome shaka, I can't believe this thread didn't go down in flames a week ago :lol:
Having a discussion on religion usually ends in death threats, not buddy list adds...Cheers man!
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Re: Official Religion Thread

Postby ShadowMoses42 » Sat Dec 19, 2009 10:33 am

NoneSoVile wrote:Awesome shaka, I can't believe this thread didn't go down in flames a week ago :lol:
Having a discussion on religion usually ends in death threats, not buddy list adds...Cheers man!


well...you two managed to be respectful about the others opinion...most people are douchers...
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Re: Official Religion Thread

Postby SKS » Sat Dec 19, 2009 2:01 pm

Well played both of you. Respectful conversation is hard to find when religion comes up, I am impressed.
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Re: Official Religion Thread

Postby lithos3333 » Sat Dec 19, 2009 2:23 pm

Back to a much earlier topic, evolution. The problem that I have with evolution is this. As long as people believe that they are nothing but animals, then they can live however they want. But once they realize that there is a creator, then they become morally responsible to that creator. The problem is that people don't want that responsibility.
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Re: Official Religion Thread

Postby ShadowMoses42 » Sat Dec 19, 2009 5:28 pm

lithos3333 wrote:Back to a much earlier topic, evolution. The problem that I have with evolution is this. As long as people believe that they are nothing but animals, then they can live however they want. But once they realize that there is a creator, then they become morally responsible to that creator. The problem is that people don't want that responsibility.


thats not so much a problem with evolution...as it is a problem with people believing in a creator...
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Re: Official Religion Thread

Postby Shaka Zulu » Sat Dec 19, 2009 6:02 pm

Thanks guys. The way I see it, there are more level headed people than people who have their heads up their (explicit). I agree Shadow; there are a lot of douchers out there that think they know everything. Most of the time, those are the people that are programmed only to what their taught and self destruct when you catch them off guard with things they aren't familiar with, even if it be pertaining to their own religion. Then there are some that have never looked in their own books but are "firm" on their stand that their religion is right. Those people I'll never understand and find it pointless to argue with them. In all reality, who IS certain about what happens after death. This is what faith is all about. To believe in God without seeing Him, but recognizing His signs by reasoning. A true wise man knows that his opinion is just that; HIS OPINION.

In my opinoion, reading is of great importance. That, and soaking up knowledge wherever or from whom ever it may come from. As a matter of fact, the first revelation Mohammad received, he was commanded as such; Iqraa. He would meditate in a cave during the summer each year pre-prophethood. In the year 610 A.D., at the age of 40, Angel Gabriel came with a command from God to " Read". Mohammad said" I cannot read. After the third time, Angel Gabriel said," Read, in the name of your Lord who created you from a blood clot ....He taught man what he knew not". We should read and learn as much as we can to better understand, not only life, but our existence. That being said, to try to understand God's work is something that noone can achieve. No one can rule out others from God's mercy or punishment. It is solely the job of the Most Merciful, Best of Judgers.

I really hope that I cleared up much of the stereotype that Muslims have and show that religion shouldn't be as complicated as it looks, though it's a tough road to travel. I'd be lying if I said I'm a TRUE muslim, but I try to avoid the major sins and always intend to do good. I do good thijngs for 2 reasons; 1) because of personal satisfaction 2) for the good pleasure of God. Even if I wasn't religious(somewhat) I would still be like this. We are naturally made to be kind hearted, which I find beautiful in our creation.

Lastly, like I said earlier, it's important to read. Especially people who follow the Abrahamic religions( Islam, Christianity, Judaism). They should learn all sides of the stories, including their own, in order to "connect the dots" and use their reasoning to come to their conclusions on what makes more sense to them. And that's all there is to it. I'll end with one of my favorite verses in the Quran that gives me chills when I hear it, " Soon We will show them our signs in the farthest regions and in their own selves until it becomes manifest to them that this is the truth from their Lord".

P.S. None, you look up Herculis's questions on Mohammad's prophethood. Id like your take on that matter. :shock:
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Re: Official Religion Thread

Postby NoneSoVile » Sat Dec 19, 2009 7:37 pm

lithos3333 wrote:Back to a much earlier topic, evolution. The problem that I have with evolution is this. As long as people believe that they are nothing but animals, then they can live however they want. But once they realize that there is a creator, then they become morally responsible to that creator. The problem is that people don't want that responsibility.

I disagree, I'm an atheist and I have very high morales for myself and my family. If I help somebody who dropped a handful of change, help an old lady up icey stairs, it's because it makes me feel good. I don't want a reward. I treat other people the way I want to be treated. I believe in empathy! A person can be morale, just, and display empathy without any forms of spiritual guidance. Remember, atheists don't fly planes into skyscrapers, we don't come knocking at your door at 8am and we will never impose feelings of guilt, hate and fear upon you. Who really has morale flaws?

What's wrong with living the way you want? There's nothing wrong with being true to yourself. (within reason of course)

I think if people start believing we are but mere animals, it will distill in us a sense of modesty and appreciation for our environment. I don't believe we are superior beings in this world, we're actually the most devastating animal to ever live. Our species is an enemy to all others and of course the planet fuckin hates us. :lol:
Just my 2cents on that, no offense intended!

*Shaka I will definately check that out tomorrow night dude, gonna have a few beers with my homies tonight
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Re: Official Religion Thread

Postby Shaka Zulu » Sun Dec 20, 2009 9:10 pm

Though we disagree about numerous things, I agree with you on one point in particular. Man IS the most destructive creature on Earth. I don't think anyone can argue about that. But, at the same time, man has the ability to be the best creature on Earth as well. I'm sure you can agree with me on that. Also, I think there are more good people than bad. And yes, I agree that people don't need religion to have good morales. Its fixated in our personalities, and unlike you, I feel this is something bestowed upon us from our Creator. We know wrong from right instinctively. I too feel we are no better than all other creatures, but I see the human as more sacred. Again, humans have the ability to be the most vile (no pun intended) and corrupted creature that we're familiar with and can be the most caring and rightous creature as well. I find this amazing for the simple fact that the majority of mankind chooses the latter. You know, I try not to use too much scripture from the Quran in debates but I'd like to point out that, even before God created Adam, the angels knew what man would be capable of. Its goes like this;"Behold, thy Lord said to the angel' I will create a vicigerent on Earth', the angels said' Wilt Thou place one therin that will cause mischief and shed blood? Whilst we do celebrate Thy praise and do glorify Thy Holy name.' He said' I know what you know not.' This verse is interesting because in our beliefs, angels only know what God teaches them.How did they know man would do this? Could there have been creatures like humans before us that caused mischeif and shed blood? I'm only guessing here and in no way is this recorded in our scriptures. Either way, even before our creation, this was to be known about man.

And again, I have to disagree with you on your remark," athiests don't fly planes into buildings". Niether do muslims. This stereotype bothers me for the simple fact that, if a Christian did this, would you consider it terrorism and say that Chrustianity is the cause of it. I try to stay away from politics but, I really feel the government had everything to do with 9\11. Watch this documentary called"Loose Change" and then tell me muslims had something to do with it. Aside from that, don't look at the people who "follow" a religion, but look at the person who introduced it and it's teachings. Look at how he(Mohammad) dealt with his enemies with mercy, how charitabke and kind he was. Even his own enemies were quoted as saying" I've never seen a leader so adored by his followers like Mohammad". The teachings are what it's about, not the actions of evil people. What you do when you say that is the same as what that guy said about athiests. I'm sure there are athiests that think the way he described although, like you for instance, those who have high morals and do good deeds. I'm sure majority of athiests are good so I won't stereotype because of the actions of the"minority."
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Re: Official Religion Thread

Postby NoneSoVile » Mon Dec 21, 2009 11:57 am

Yea Shaka I definately wasn't throwing accusations at any religious group as being 'evil' or anything. I think people in generally have some bad shit in their minds and in their hearts. Everyone is capable of great things, everyone is capable of horrible shit. If I was born in certain areas of Africa, I'd probably be hacking someone to death with a machete right now. We're definately a curious species, we've only been in heavy industry for 100 years consuming every natural resource we can get our greedy little hands on! I'm curious as to how this generation will be viewed in the history books, probably a generation of fear, confusion and consumption. The first example that comes to mind when I hear the word Terrorism is the Iraq invasion, when I hear war criminal I think of 'national heroes' like Stalin, Hitler, Bush or Hussein. The faces of death.

I'm also very skeptical about the entire events surround 9/11, not to sound like a consipracy theorist, but the facts don't stack up...Too much bullshit for me to handle. Media outlets like Fox News scare the shit out of me. Demanding an entire nation bend to terror. Killer bees, SARS, H1N1, Global Warming, Terrorists, Anthrax, The Economy, Illegal Immigrants, Homos etc. etc. Two groups of people pointing the finger at each other. Freedom of choice is an illusion. The country is run by mega corporations, don't waste time getting angry at Obama or Bush. Who makes the breakfast cereal? Toucan Sam or Kelloggs? :lol: Pardon the political speal! I just loathe Fox news, Bill O, Coulture and every other cretin on that station.

Back on topic!
Check out these documentaries Shaka. 'The god who wasn't there' and 'Religulous' These are just trailers but they're very good documentaries! The media portrays the average christian as a morally good person, who cares for their neighbors and their country. Unfortunately, I don't see that. :lol: Your local vid store prob has Religulous, google the other 2! Cheers man





Jesus Camp is just plain old fashioned child abuse. :shock:
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Re: Official Religion Thread

Postby Shaka Zulu » Mon Dec 21, 2009 3:10 pm

Thanks for the vids. I've been wanting to see Religulous and The God that wasn't there. The Jesus Camp video was quite disturbing. I can't lie, it almost brought tears to my eyes because I imagine my daughter being there. That is plain child abuse. This is exactly what gives religion a bad name.

You know what the problem is; innovation in religion. People taking the religion and changing it to better fit their ideoligies. This is a major sin. Let the teachings speak for themselves. Prophet Mohammad warned us about things like this. He said," Innovation leads to going astray from the path. One thing I ask Christians is " How is it that Paul, who never met Jesus, has a bigger influence on Christianity than Jesus himself. He is the one who came with the idea that Jesus is Lord and savior and if you don't accept him as such then your going to hell. We'll if that's the case, what about the prophets before him? They didn't take him as lord and savior, so are they damned? If you've heard of the Letters of the Brothers of Jesus, you'll find a different story. These letters date back to Jesus's lifetime from people who lived amongst him. He was viewed as a prophet, not the son of God, much like Islamic views of him. Again, they date back to Jesus's lifetime. How come these aren't included in the New Testament? Also, there were more than 4 gospels that made up the New Testament; so tell me, who has the right to exclude these gospels?

Aside from that, not once did Jesus say I am the son of God in the New Testament, so where did this idea come from. I'll tell you. When Constantine accepted Christianity, he ordered that all the Hebrew scriptures be destroyed. Not only that, these new converts were formerly idol worshippers and tainted the religion with it. Paul, wanting to please these new converts, inclined a little towards their wantings of making Jesus God-like. It shouldn't be that way. Anyone who has any kind of understanding can see this. If you want to learn about someone, would you accept someone's story who never met him? Or would you accept stories from people who lived around him. Even the NT has verses that warn people of scribes that change the books. Any Christian can agree that the Bible has been changed very much. Either intentionally or accidentally. Many scribes who copied the scripture couldn't read, so they wouldn't know if they accidentally copied it wrong. Also, during the Babylonian era, many of the Jewish rabbis were killed and persecuted, and the scriptures were detroyed. Yet, thay are finding scriptures like the Dead Sea Scrolls that date back to Jesus's lifetime and let me tell you, they portray a different story than the NT.

You see, Christianity is built around the notion that Jesus is Son of God or God's incarnate. Without this belief, there is no Christianity. Christianity didn't exist in his lifetime and you have to remember, he was Jewish and came to restore the teachings in the Torah. Therefore, shouldn't Christians do the same? I'll leave this alone and save it for another time but Id like to point out, Jesus spoke Aramaic. In the Aramaic language, there is no "j". Therefore to say "Jesus" is actually wrong because there is no "J". In Arabic his name is Isa. What I'm getting at is, if something as simple as his name is pronounced wrong, there are many other things that should be looked at and reconsidered. Also, do you know what the word for God is in Aramaic. Allah. Same as Arabic. When Jesus said God, he said Allah. You're probably saying" OK, So what?" Well you have to keep in mind that the word Allah meansThe God" or better yet " The One Supreme God". For Jesus to refer to Him as such would indicate that he didn't claim divinity. He was sent to "the lost sheep of Isreal" to " fulfill" the law not to " destroy the law". I've rambled a little too much on this so I'll stop it there.

Also, I like the way you use analogies like the cereal one. I too see the President as nothing more than a puppet on strings( unless it's Dubya). I hardly watch the news because it's all nothing but lies. They try to keep the people occupied with fear about terrorism, diseases and such so they don't use their brains and see what the government is doing. I also don't want to be "that dude" that talks about conspiricies but I feel a lot of their agenda is to sway people from finding the truth in Islam and have people thinking negative about it. They even go as far as to create new words such as Islamist. WTF? Basically they put Islam and Terrorist together so when someone hears Islam they automatically think terrorist. Its all word propaganda. But look at the ratio of Christians converting to Islam compared to other religions. Slowly but surely, more and more people are finding out the truth and see Islam in it's true light and finding out the real story of Jesus.

Lastly, how will our generation be viewed in history books? One word "Excessive". We want what we don't need and, while we eat off our plates, we greedily watch what is on the next man's plate. Morals and dignity is fading away. Look at the Disney channel for example. The stuff on these shows now, shit, I had to wait till midnight to see that kind of stuff when I was younger ( Silk Stockings on USA :wink:) premarital sex is openly endorsed and these young kids are allowed to dress like hoochies and yet, people wonder why there are so many sexual predators. The scary thing is, this is just the beginning. Imagine 100 years from now. I'l end with this; for someone who can still resist all these temptations and lead a good life definitely has my respect.
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Re: Official Religion Thread

Postby NoneSoVile » Mon Dec 21, 2009 3:54 pm

Good post Shaka and I agree, if a young adult can live a happy, healthy, vice free life they deserve huge respect. Everyone has the odd bad habit, but holy mother fucker the world is changing...I'd have to say at least 3/4 of the people I went to highschool with are struggling with serious problems (drugs, crime, alchohol or they're plain old fashioned fucked)

Interesting points on Jesus, they didn't even get his name right. It makes you wonder...The founding fathers of Christianity thought the earth was flat, the sun revolved around the earth and the main contributor to the bible, didn't even meet Jesus (among various other obvious blunders) and we're supposed to base our entire lives around this? Fuck that! Religion should be looked at the way painting, collecting stamps or playing games is...A hobby or an interest never to be mixed with reality.

Also, just to clarify...Thanks to various forms of american media if the words 'Muslim' 'Islam' 'Turbin' etc. are spoken, people instantly picture a man with an AK-47 and a bomb strapped on his chest.
The american people fail to realize their greatest threat isn't an anthrax letter or a bomb on a bus, it's giant corporations and crooked politicians right down the street from them. Peanuts have killed more americans than terrorists in the past 30 years. More people have choked to death on ham sandwhiches, are they going to wage war on ham sandwhiches? No...There's no fossil fuel in a ham sandwhich. :?

It really sucks the majority of us have such a distorted view on reality...If we were united, educated and healthy, it would probably be impossible to govern us. The media is keeping us divided, confused and afraid for a reason! Question everything!
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Re: Official Religion Thread

Postby Shaka Zulu » Mon Dec 21, 2009 10:57 pm

And this is how you rule a nation my friend; DIVIDE AND CONQUER. This practice has been used since the beginning of civilization. Divide the people in different classes, kill the wise elders, and brainwash the ignorant youth, and now you have yourself a "kingdom". That way, their progeny sees the corrupt government as normal, and yet are pleased that the government keeps them "safe" from terrorism. I'm also glad that you recognize the media bullshit. Some people actually believe that stuff. If you've ever seen V for Vendetta, I think that movie paints a perfect picture of how government plays their games.

This is why I'm comforted by the existence of God. I can't accept the idea that wicked people escape punishment for their evil actions by dying. It just doesn't sit well with me. And on the flip side, good and rightous people not being rewarded for their deeds. Even if there was no religion, if I had the mentality I have right now, I would still believe in God. It's something I can't put into words, but I can feel his presence ( not like the Jesus Camp kind of way). All these wicked, filthy, lying politicians, kings, criminals, murderers, rapists, and racists will have to face what they have earned. It just makes too much sense to me that this is the truth. I find it funny that they think, when they die, they got away with what they've done and are oblivious to what's in store. Sadly, you don't see that. But I will say, a guy as intellectual as yourself, can't stay away from enlightenment forever. And if not, wish you the best and will keep you in my prayers.

Anyway, before I get all "fuzzy" I want to say I agree with how you said religion should be like a hobby, but to a certain extent. I feel that religion can and should apply to reality. Religion, or better yet God's revelation, should lay down the platform to lead a good life and show how a nation should be run. I agree people don't need religion to know these things but, just like we have man made laws, we have laws ordained by God. That way no one can say "well, I didn't know what I was doing wrong". Also, God's laws shouldn't be that complicated. I will tell you the 5 principles of Islam. 1) Testify that there is no god but Allah and that Mohammad is His final messanger 2) give to charity 3) pray the 5 obligatory prayers 4) fast during the holy month of Ramadan 5) if financially capable and healthy, perform pilgrimage to Mecca. That's all there is to it. Simple and easy to understand.

The Prophet Mohammad governed his nation with only the Quran. And with this alone, he was able to unite all the warring Arabic tribes and brought, not only the Arabs, but much of the world out of the Dark Age of Ignorance. With the Quran alone. Before prophethood, he had no knowledge of being a ruler, but with Divine Knowledge being related to him, he was able to accomplish this difficult feat. Sadly after he passed away, the message has been lost in translation. I haven't seen 1 muslim figure setting things aright, and Sunnis and Shiite muslims are too busy killing each other. In all honesty, I think Christians (or atleast true Christians are better than us. The prophet Mohammad said it best when he said," Christianity is men without religion, amd Islam is a religion without men." He even predicted that Islam will break off in different sects, much like Jews and Christians. Someone asked him "Who do we follow if we live to see this?" He said,"Follow the majority", which is sunni which means to follow the sunnah of the Prophet (I.e. follow his ways) which is what I consider myself though I'll say I'm a MUSLIM.

I'll stop there but would again like to thank you for this respectable conversation. You kind of remind ne of an athiest version of myself. Though we live on different sides of the fence, we're all the same. Peace (salam).

P.S. You check out the Herculies thing yet? :shock:
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Re: Official Religion Thread

Postby NoneSoVile » Tue Dec 22, 2009 12:42 am

Good shit Shaka and nah man never checked that out yet, I've only had limited comp time lately, mostly popping on linker for the odd few minutes. Gotta make Santa Claus happen, too damn busy :lol: Definately will soon

To be completely honest Shaka, I'd trade my brain for a simplified version in a heartbeat. People see mental disabilities as a horrible thing, to me they would be a gift. Being 8 years old for the rest of my life would be incredible. Is intelligence a gift or a curse? There's nothing I would love more than to have a personal god. Someone to look out for me, someone to talk to at anytime, loves me no matter what etc. etc. I'd also love to know that horrible criminals were getting punished...Sadly, I think they're not. Everywhere I look I see a godless world man. Example: My son cleaned off all the snow on my car the other day without being asked to, he just did it to be a good boy...and then he slips on the ice and smashes his knee. wtf?
4000 children starve to death every hour around the world. Corrupt CEO's bury their companies and walk away with millions of dollars.

Why aren't we judged in life? Why does it have to be such a secret? What proof do you have Shaka that the scum of the earth get divine judgements? Is it possible you're wrong? In my opinion, criminals like Jerry Falwell live as kings, die as heroes and they're buried as martyrs, end of the story. Noone has a single shred of proof concerning afterlife judgements. The human brain cannot be shut off, so unfortunately we cannot comprehend death. My grandfather used to say 'You don't remember being born and you won't remember dying' Which kind of sums it up for me. Brain goes off, curtains close. Death of loved ones hurts an atheist much more than a religious person in my opinion. I don't use the phrases 'Gone to a better place/I'll see them again.' More like, 'They're gone forever' 'I'll never see them again' Cold hard truth.

Noone can say 'I know for a fact' regarding the afterlife. Saying anything in absolutes isn't a good idea, I do occasionally but...Nothing is 100% . You don't 'know' there's a god, you think there's a god. I don't 'know' there's no god, I think there's no god. This is what fucks me up, if I'm not damn near certain on something, I won't act upon it. I definately can't throw my chips in with the religious although I'd fucking love to.
I appreciate the kind gesture and the prayers, but you must realize...I'm an atheist because I became enlightened. Unfortunately I didn't experience nirvana more like a horrifying epiphany. Ignorance is bliss. Cheers dude!
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