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Re: Official Religion Thread

Postby Shaka Zulu » Thu Dec 03, 2009 9:45 pm

NoneSoVile wrote:Definately JCVD and Shaka Zulu I completely agree.
It's very complicated and amazing how a few single celled organism with basic protein structures would eventually turn into trees, whales and humans...
I really don't know much about the beginning, but it's definately the most complicated aspect of evolving. I know I have wayyy more questions than answers :lol:

If I had to take a guess on the subject, I could see various single celled organisms competiting in a primative ocean, with slight changes occuring over time...The simple creatures that exhibited a superior change would reproduce and the weaker would fade away...and eventually we could see the first examples of organisms that resembled plants, animals and bacteria.

We've only been around for a few thousand years, and each person only experiences a blink of life on the planet...So it's definately hard for the human brain to comprehend what a billion years is like.


Same here. Sometimes asking questions like this don't help us at all. We are here and that's all there is to it. The real question should be " how did we get here and why?" It is just too obvious that Someone created all this. The complexity of the brain,the universe,plants,animals and so on is just too great to have just "appeared" out of nowhere. Look at trees for instance; they breathe in what we breathe out and we breathe in what they breathe out. Each needs the other. That in itself is a miracle but many people overlook small things like this because we're so used to it. As long as there are humans on this earth this topic will always be debated. Its all about perception and understanding. 10 people can look at the same painting; 9 may abhore it 1 will absolutely adore it. This is how faith is. To each his own. I think it was Albert Einstein who said " If the human brain was simple enough to understand,we would be too simple to understand it." Makes a lot of sense if you think about it.
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Re: Official Religion Thread

Postby Shaka Zulu » Thu Dec 03, 2009 9:54 pm

mcpoopants wrote:i was just thinking about making a similiar about questioning why there were so many religion haters around here. i just think its a waisted energy, there are actually things that efect your life that are worth hating , religion shouldnt bother people since it really has no impact on them.


Yeah I wonder why people get so angry when a subject like this is brought up. The worse though is people who are close-minded and everything they say is right and you're wrong. But whatever I don't let it bother me because at the end of the day,its what's in your heart,not what you can prove to someone. I guess people don't like what they don't understand and get judgemental about it.

I'm really enjoying this thread and hope nobody ruins it. I think we can all learn something from this. :wink:
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Re: Official Religion Thread

Postby shogun86 » Fri Dec 04, 2009 2:16 am

shaka zulu wrote:
mcpoopants wrote:i was just thinking about making a similiar about questioning why there were so many religion haters around here. i just think its a waisted energy, there are actually things that efect your life that are worth hating , religion shouldnt bother people since it really has no impact on them.


Yeah I wonder why people get so angry when a subject like this is brought up. The worse though is people who are close-minded and everything they say is right and you're wrong. But whatever I don't let it bother me because at the end of the day,its what's in your heart,not what you can prove to someone. I guess people don't like what they don't understand and get judgemental about it.

I'm really enjoying this thread and hope nobody ruins it. I think we can all learn something from this. :wink:

im with you man, lets keep this going
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Re: Official Religion Thread

Postby AlexisVilaMyHero » Fri Dec 04, 2009 2:48 am

mcpoopants wrote:i was just thinking about making a similiar about questioning why there were so many religion haters around here. i just think its a waisted energy, there are actually things that efect your life that are worth hating , religion shouldnt bother people since it really has no impact on them.


On principle I agree with you but a lot of religion has shown a certain amount of destructiveness in the past (I know thats an over-generalization) . I have no problem with any religion that doesn't force its ideals upon people that don't want them or give its believers an excuse to harm others.

And yes, in general getting worked up about things like this in an MMA forum doesn't make much sense no matter what you believe.
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Re: Official Religion Thread

Postby Tankthatshitt » Fri Dec 04, 2009 3:53 am

Im a somewhat practicing christian i do believe in god and i also do believe that 99.5% of professed christian will go to hell. I dont like talking about religion too much because its not like something to discuss about someone favorite fighter or what not its someones way of life and one wrong word could offend someone. but anyways i think its important to know the difference between science and religion. I think there is too much debate about which is right or wrong but its like comparing apples to oranges. Science is an explaination of how shit happens and religion tries to explain why. also say religion tries because hey for all we know everything in this world can be a coincidence but thats what faith is to believe in what u cant see and trust in soemthing that is hard to believe.
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Re: Official Religion Thread

Postby ShadowMoses42 » Fri Dec 04, 2009 11:47 am

NoneSoVile wrote:
As far as Evolution goes,Islam doesn't necessarily disprove of it,because the Quran states that"We created every living thing from water". That being said,every organism can be tied back to one another because they're from the same origin. God says he created Adam with his hands and Eve from his rib. This would contradict Evolutionists claim that we evolved from monkeys. I don't have enough knowledge to debate that part,but one thing I can say is ,if we did evolve fom monkeys,how come we aren't evolving anymore. As far as creationism, we believe God creates everything,but they had to go through natural stages,not from spontaneously appearing. Also,something interesting to note is that the Big Bang Theory is actually mentioned in the Quran. Chapter 21,I can't remember which verse,but it says,"Do the disbelievers not see that the heavens and the earth was one unit of creation until we clove them asunder,and we made every living thing from water". This is a bold statement considering it was revealed over 1400 years ago. One thing Islam does agre with about evolution is that a species will adapt to its environment.

Just wanted to point out that we didn't exactly evolve from monkeys, more like...Primates (humans included) all share a common ancestor.
We are still evolving, it takes millions of years to notice a change and since we've only been around for thousands, we won't see much. I think its cool the Quran acknowledges things like the big bang and evolution though!


yea...not monkeys...but anyways...neanderthals (Cavemen)...existed about 20,000-50,000 years ago...or something like that...they were shorter then us...and had larger brains...but ultimately very similar in appearance...
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the whole monkey thing is a misconception...monkeys exist today...neanderthals don't...
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Re: Official Religion Thread

Postby Shaka Zulu » Fri Dec 04, 2009 12:30 pm

ShadowMoses42 wrote:
NoneSoVile wrote:
As far as Evolution goes,Islam doesn't necessarily disprove of it,because the Quran states that"We created every living thing from water". That being said,every organism can be tied back to one another because they're from the same origin. God says he created Adam with his hands and Eve from his rib. This would contradict Evolutionists claim that we evolved from monkeys. I don't have enough knowledge to debate that part,but one thing I can say is ,if we did evolve fom monkeys,how come we aren't evolving anymore. As far as creationism, we believe God creates everything,but they had to go through natural stages,not from spontaneously appearing. Also,something interesting to note is that the Big Bang Theory is actually mentioned in the Quran. Chapter 21,I can't remember which verse,but it says,"Do the disbelievers not see that the heavens and the earth was one unit of creation until we clove them asunder,and we made every living thing from water". This is a bold statement considering it was revealed over 1400 years ago. One thing Islam does agre with about evolution is that a species will adapt to its environment.

Just wanted to point out that we didn't exactly evolve from monkeys, more like...Primates (humans included) all share a common ancestor.
We are still evolving, it takes millions of years to notice a change and since we've only been around for thousands, we won't see much. I think its cool the Quran acknowledges things like the big bang and evolution though!


yea...not monkeys...but anyways...neanderthals (Cavemen)...existed about 20,000-50,000 years ago...or something like that...they were shorter then us...and had larger brains...but ultimately very similar in appearance...
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the whole monkey thing is a misconception...monkeys exist today...neanderthals don't...


Yeah I may have chosen the wrong words and should have said neanderthals. But could it be that neanderthals were in that form to better suit them in their times. That is how I see evolution; a species evolving to adapt to the environment that they inhabit such as climate,altitude,and geography. That shows wisdom of the Creator because the way I see it,if this all appeared out of nowhere I don't see how that would be possible to occur.
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Re: Official Religion Thread

Postby NoneSoVile » Fri Dec 04, 2009 12:48 pm

I completely understand mcpoopants, alot of religious people feel that the non-believers are arrogant assholes that just want to stir up shit...but it's completely the opposite really :lol: I have no interest in hurting anybodys feelings, I'd just like to have a civil conversation and discuss important things such as the universe, the origin of life etc. etc.

It's basically just personal preferance, I looked at the facts and came to my own conclusion. I have never been lied to by science, it's never made me feel guilty or fearful. It doesn't demand I follow specific rules or threatens to burn me for all eternity if I didn't. It doesn't promise me eternal life, I know I have one life to live and I should cherish it and live it fully. Science doesn't say I should hate other groups of people (based on, religion, sexual preferance etc.)
If I do something good for another person, it's because I want to help them, I'm not seeking a reward from a god figure watching me. I think I'm a better person now that I've let go all of my religious affiliations, I FEEL better.

I'm only speaking in my personal truths and in no means am I trying to offend religious people in this thread, I'm speaking based on personal preferance and experiences. Here's a very interesting video about a mans transition to atheism, enjoy!

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Re: Official Religion Thread

Postby ShadowMoses42 » Fri Dec 04, 2009 1:28 pm

shaka zulu wrote:Yeah I may have chosen the wrong words and should have said neanderthals. But could it be that neanderthals were in that form to better suit them in their times. That is how I see evolution; a species evolving to adapt to the environment that they inhabit such as climate,altitude,and geography. That shows wisdom of the Creator because the way I see it,if this all appeared out of nowhere I don't see how that would be possible to occur.


yea...thinking about all this stuff hurts my beautiful brain...i just wanted to point out the monkey thing...i am a strong believer in evolution and i think we see it everywhere in skin color and physical appearance...and im not religious...anyways...

i like turtles...
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Re: Official Religion Thread

Postby detfilteg » Fri Dec 04, 2009 2:10 pm

shaka zulu wrote:Yeah I may have chosen the wrong words and should have said neanderthals. But could it be that neanderthals were in that form to better suit them in their times. That is how I see evolution; a species evolving to adapt to the environment that they inhabit such as climate,altitude,and geography. That shows wisdom of the Creator because the way I see it,if this all appeared out of nowhere I don't see how that would be possible to occur.



I do not think that everything appeared out of nowhere. Now we might think of "nothingness" or "space" or "nothing" as being empty, but even the things which we cannot see visually have physical properties. A good example of this is dark matter and dark energy. We cannot see them but we can tell the effect that these things have on the rest of the universe.
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Re: Official Religion Thread

Postby Shaka Zulu » Fri Dec 04, 2009 3:28 pm

I agree with JCVD that no religion should be forced onto some and with Tank that there are so many hypocrites, not only in Christianity, but in Islam and all other religions, especially the people chosen to teach these religions. In Islam, faith is on an individual basis and is a direct relationship between you and God, instead of having to go through others to have your prayer heard. If God is All Hearing then it shouldn't be a problem for Him to hear everyone's prayers.

That to the side, I'd like to share a couple of my favorite verses from the Quran to educate you a little more on our teachings of God and to clear up the misconception that Islam was spread through the sword. Chapter 2 verse 255 states," Allah(God) is He besides whom there is no god, the Ever-Living, the Self-Subsisting by whom all subsist; slumber does not overtake Him nor does He sleep; whatever is in the heavens and whatever is in the earth is His; who is he that can intercede with Him but by His permission? He knows what is before them and what is behind them, and they cannot comprehend anything out of His knowledge except what He pleases; His footstool doth extend over the heavens and the earth and the preservation of them tires Him not, and He is the Most High, Almighty". Verse 2:256 goes on to say ," Let there be no compulsion in religion; verily, the right way has become clearly distinct from falsehood; therefore whoever disbelieves in the devil and believes in Allah, he indeed has laid hold on the firmest handle, which shall not break off, and Allah is All-Hearing, All-Knowing".

This shows that there shouldn't be compulsion in religion. No one should force religion on anyone and that falsehood vanishes and truth prevails. Hope you guys enjoyed these verses as much as I have.
Last edited by Shaka Zulu on Fri Dec 04, 2009 4:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Official Religion Thread

Postby Shaka Zulu » Fri Dec 04, 2009 3:32 pm

ShadowMoses42 wrote:
shaka zulu wrote:Yeah I may have chosen the wrong words and should have said neanderthals. But could it be that neanderthals were in that form to better suit them in their times. That is how I see evolution; a species evolving to adapt to the environment that they inhabit such as climate,altitude,and geography. That shows wisdom of the Creator because the way I see it,if this all appeared out of nowhere I don't see how that would be possible to occur.


yea...thinking about all this stuff hurts my beautiful brain...i just wanted to point out the monkey thing...i am a strong believer in evolution and i think we see it everywhere in skin color and physical appearance...and im not religious...anyways...

i like turtles...


sorry I got your brain hurtin, wasn't my intention. And yes, turtles kick ass!!!!
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Re: Official Religion Thread

Postby Shaka Zulu » Mon Dec 07, 2009 7:27 pm

NoneSoVile wrote:I completely understand mcpoopants, alot of religious people feel that the non-believers are arrogant assholes that just want to stir up shit...but it's completely the opposite really :lol: I have no interest in hurting anybodys feelings, I'd just like to have a civil conversation and discuss important things such as the universe, the origin of life etc. etc.

It's basically just personal preferance, I looked at the facts and came to my own conclusion. I have never been lied to by science, it's never made me feel guilty or fearful. It doesn't demand I follow specific rules or threatens to burn me for all eternity if I didn't. It doesn't promise me eternal life, I know I have one life to live and I should cherish it and live it fully. Science doesn't say I should hate other groups of people (based on, religion, sexual preferance etc.)
If I do something good for another person, it's because I want to help them, I'm not seeking a reward from a god figure watching me. I think I'm a better person now that I've let go all of my religious affiliations, I FEEL better.

I'm only speaking in my personal truths and in no means am I trying to offend religious people in this thread, I'm speaking based on personal preferance and experiences. Here's a very interesting video about a mans transition to atheism, enjoy!



Good video. I just now got a chance to watch it. I've met a couple of ex-Christians at the mosque and they also had similar stories to this one. Before I get started, in no way am I trying to degrade the Christian religion, but the notion of Jesus being Son of God is what makes Christianity what it is. Without that, there is no Christianity. That to the side, much of this belief stems from Paul ( Jesus being Lord and savior) whom had never met Jesus. Now if you've heard of the Letters of the Brothers of Jesus, these were written during Jesus's lifetime, he is portrayed as a prohet of God, but was a man. This is the same belief as Islam (that and he was born of a virgin. As much as I've read the Old and New Testament, there is no allusions of Jesus being Son of God nor did he make that claim.

Again in no way am I trying to disprove Christianity; on the contrary, you aren't a true Muslim unless you believe that the Torah and the Bible were books from God, and that the Quran was sent down to confirm this and to restore the original teachings of Jesus, Moses, Abraham and all the other prophets because these scriptures have been changed so much throughout time, which many Christians can agree.

Figured id turn up the heat on this debate, but please know that this is all for fun, healthy and enteraining conversation so please don't hate me.
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Re: Official Religion Thread

Postby mcpoopants » Tue Dec 08, 2009 12:40 am

one unexplained occurrence that makes the theory of religion or an actual human spirit seems almost plausible are ghost, i mean they are documented, they're real and and science can't explain it.
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Re: Official Religion Thread

Postby NoneSoVile » Tue Dec 08, 2009 11:58 am

mcpoopants wrote:one unexplained occurrence that makes the theory of religion or an actual human spirit seems almost plausible are ghost, i mean they are documented, they're real and and science can't explain it.


I disagree. I think ghosts (along with bigfoot, lochness and cave trolls) are all fictional with zero scientific evidence. The documentation of "ghosts" is usually in the form of a person making alot of money off of their story/experience.

There is also zero evidence of there being a "spirit" or magical life form dwelling in each human being, seperating us from animals. This whole spirit nonsense was created to give people an arrogance over other life on earth (in my opinion) and, unfortunate as it sounds, we are equal to the rest of the life on this planet. As much as I would love to live the fantasy, we go the same place a cat goes when it dies.
As a matter of fact, I like my cat more than most people I know. Just thought I'd throw that out there. :lol:
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