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Official Religion Thread

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Re: Official Religion Thread

Postby Beast Master » Wed Dec 02, 2009 6:52 pm

kingomegared wrote:
exsanguinator wrote:Just a post so I can monitor this thread.


this should be a good one, i will be jumping in out to say pointless things and not really contribute...you know, the usual 8)



I'm right there with you on that man!
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Re: Official Religion Thread

Postby Shaka Zulu » Wed Dec 02, 2009 7:42 pm

NoneSoVile wrote:
As far as Evolution goes,Islam doesn't necessarily disprove of it,because the Quran states that"We created every living thing from water". That being said,every organism can be tied back to one another because they're from the same origin. God says he created Adam with his hands and Eve from his rib. This would contradict Evolutionists claim that we evolved from monkeys. I don't have enough knowledge to debate that part,but one thing I can say is ,if we did evolve fom monkeys,how come we aren't evolving anymore. As far as creationism, we believe God creates everything,but they had to go through natural stages,not from spontaneously appearing. Also,something interesting to note is that the Big Bang Theory is actually mentioned in the Quran. Chapter 21,I can't remember which verse,but it says,"Do the disbelievers not see that the heavens and the earth was one unit of creation until we clove them asunder,and we made every living thing from water". This is a bold statement considering it was revealed over 1400 years ago. One thing Islam does agre with about evolution is that a species will adapt to its environment.

Just wanted to point out that we didn't exactly evolve from monkeys, more like...Primates (humans included) all share a common ancestor.
We are still evolving, it takes millions of years to notice a change and since we've only been around for thousands, we won't see much. I think its cool the Quran acknowledges things like the big bang and evolution though!


Yeah,like I said,evolution isn't something I'm too educated about. I can just simply say I don't know enough about this subject to debate about it so I'm not gonna act like I do. I just don't know.

Also I thought you would find this pretty cool. The Quran states " It is we who created the universe and it is we who are steadily expanding it". This has been scientifically proven that the universe is still getting bigger. This has been in the Quran for over 1400 years.
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Re: Official Religion Thread

Postby Shaka Zulu » Wed Dec 02, 2009 10:38 pm

detfilteg wrote:
shaka zulu wrote:
I agree about the slow process of evolution,but don't you think we would see a bit of change,say,compared to ancient portraits of people through out history. Also,if anything,humans are becoming smaller than those of old for the simple fact that many things that we eat are artificial,compared to natural food. If you've ever seen Abrahams foot prints in Mecca,they are huge. Not to mention,look at Stone Henge,they could've only been constructed by giants.



As stated in the previous post I think most of our evolution has now moved to a change in mental attributes as opposed to physical. This can be seen in the amount of new technology that we have created in the past 100 years. I think that is probably the largest evidence of human evolution that is relevent to our current state.

The footprint of Abraham takes a bit of faith and/or blind faith to believe it is actually the footprint of someone whom lived during the time of 2000 B.C. Although something of this nature is possible, we have fossil's and can measure their origin period, but to think that this specific footprint belonged to someone in religious culture is something all together. The size of the footprint we can speculate on though.

Back in those times I think it would be plausible for humans to have had much larger feet than we do today due to the increased amount of travel that was covered by foot. Much less the nature of the roads of the time and obstacles that had to be overcome to reach one's destination. I am not saying that what you suggested does not have the capacity to be true, I just think that there are multiple explanations for almost every scenario recorded in history.

Stonehenge can be associated in the same category as the pyramids. They are here, but no one really knows how they got here or what means were used to create them. Both though have the common trait of being used for ceremonies associated with burying the dead. From this we can pull that no matter what time frame or what culture is being analyzed; death, and what happens post-mortem, is one of the largest concerns of the living.[/quote

On the note of Abraham,yes it would take faith to believe those are his footprints,but if you know his history,he traveled his entire life,and one of his journies led him to Mecca (Paran in the Bible) and is recognized as building the Kaaba (that black building Muslims circumbulate when they perform pilgramage ) along with his son Ishmail. This building is known as the first house of worship ever built to worship the one true God. The foot prints are right next to the Kaaba in a section called the Station of Abraham. Therefore it is very possible they are his,but only God knows.

As for Stonehenge,the stones that were used are foreign to the land its in and the massiveness of them would not allow enough average sized men to be able to make them budge. How did they get there ? You can say that a large animal was used to tranport them but how would've the stacked them on top of each other.

Faith really is blind and I don't care how much faith a person has,there will always be uncertainty of the afterlife. Nobody can honestly say "Yes I know this with certainty"and if they do,they are smoking some real good stuff. Humans are created weak,but God is always forgiving.
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Re: Official Religion Thread

Postby PBells » Wed Dec 02, 2009 11:20 pm

I don't believe in anything religious or spiritual. Secular humanism would fit my beliefs the best, but there are all kinds of little influences from other things like Kabbalah, Buddhism, etc.

But anyway, from what I've researched, all major religions both past and present have frighteningly similar elements (floods, creation stories, parables, deities, etc.) and I believe that came about by sharing. One remote culture would encounter a new society with vastly different philosophies and religious views and assimilate those into their own. For example, Judaism in the Old Testament shared many similarities with Zoroastrianism and Egyptian mythology.

Religion started as a way to explain the unexplainable, like "Where did we come from?", "What are we here for?", "What happens after death?", etc.
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Re: Official Religion Thread

Postby Shaka Zulu » Thu Dec 03, 2009 1:24 am

PsychoBells wrote:I don't believe in anything religious or spiritual. Secular humanism would fit my beliefs the best, but there are all kinds of little influences from other things like Kabbalah, Buddhism, etc.

But anyway, from what I've researched, all major religions both past and present have frighteningly similar elements (floods, creation stories, parables, deities, etc.) and I believe that came about by sharing. One remote culture would encounter a new society with vastly different philosophies and religious views and assimilate those into their own. For example, Judaism in the Old Testament shared many similarities with Zoroastrianism and Egyptian mythology.

Religion started as a way to explain the unexplainable, like "Where did we come from?", "What are we here for?", "What happens after death?", etc.


Well I don't know about Secular Humanism but I can say that many religions startes as monotheistic but was tainted with paganism to make the religion more interesting. People were bored with the belief of one true God so attributed Him as having sons or other gods to spice up their religions.

In my opinion,it is hard to rule out a higher power for the simple fact that ; well, look how complex our universe is,better yet the human brain. For example,if I showed you a house in the middle of nowhere and said"this came from nothing,it just appeared out of nowhere" you would say I'm questioning your intelligence. Can you honestly say the construction of a house is more complex than our universe or the human brain. Someone put that house there therefore someone or something created the universe. It is just too apparent to deny. Yes religion is somewhat here to answer"why we are here" but is also here for guidance for mankind.

But let us look at the three major religions; Judaism,Christianity,and Islam. These are known as the Abrahamic religions and are all considered monotheistic religions. All three are similar because they're from the same source. They all differ mainly on the issue of Jeus. Judaism doesn't view him as anything special. Christianity views him as God's Son,born of a virgin,and the Messiah. Islam views him,not as Son of God,but a prophet of God,born of a virgin and,like Christianity,claim him to be the Messiah. In Islam it is blasphemy to say God has begotten a son. It teaches that God is One and everything and everyone he created is his servant and nothing more.
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Re: Official Religion Thread

Postby AlexisVilaMyHero » Thu Dec 03, 2009 1:33 am

Frank Mir made me question my atheism.
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Re: Official Religion Thread

Postby thegroovemonkey » Thu Dec 03, 2009 1:42 am

This has bad news written all over it :biggrin:
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Re: Official Religion Thread

Postby Shaka Zulu » Thu Dec 03, 2009 12:45 pm

thegroovemonkey wrote:This has bad news written all over it :biggrin:


yeah, dont you just love it!!!
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Re: Official Religion Thread

Postby NoneSoVile » Thu Dec 03, 2009 2:47 pm

Interesting documentary regarding Intelligent Design vs Evolution, Enjoy.

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Re: Official Religion Thread

Postby Shaka Zulu » Thu Dec 03, 2009 4:42 pm

NoneSoVile wrote:Interesting documentary regarding Intelligent Design vs Evolution, Enjoy.



That was a pretty interesting video,thanks NoneSoVile. I like how they pointed out that there are gaps in the evolution theory. It would be hard to prove that all species evolved from the same animal. Creationism is pretty extreme as well and is more of a religious stand point,but I would agree on one part;that for each animal,there had to be one created in the beginning and from there,reproduced and evolved to its current state depending on its evironment. Also the fact that all creatures are created in pairs(male and female) is a wonder in itself. Thanks for the vid.
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Re: Official Religion Thread

Postby NoneSoVile » Thu Dec 03, 2009 6:13 pm

It's a 12 part documentary, that's only the prologue to the story really. It basically shows what happens when science clashes with religion, very cool documentary. Here's part 6/12, enjoy. By the way, those "gaps" in evolution, they were referring to an accusation by creationists. They were claiming evolutionary theories were wrong, but of course, evolutionary theories are factual and confirmed as truths.


Something else that bothers me...I see alot of people saying things like "Evolution is JUST a theory"

Evolution is a scientific theory! Friction and gravity are also scientific theories. (We don't question gravity too much) :lol:
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Re: Official Religion Thread

Postby Shaka Zulu » Thu Dec 03, 2009 6:29 pm

NoneSoVile wrote:It's a 12 part documentary, that's only the prologue to the story really. It basically shows what happens when science clashes with religion, very cool documentary. Here's part 6/12, enjoy. By the way, those "gaps" in evolution, they were referring to an accusation by creationists. They were claiming evolutionary theories were wrong, but of course, evolutionary theories are factual and confirmed as truths.


Something else that bothers me...I see alot of people saying things like "Evolution is JUST a theory"

Evolution is a scientific theory! Friction and gravity are also scientific theories. (We don't question gravity too much) :lol:


I wouldn't count out the idea of evolution,in all honesty,I think evolution has occured. But where the lines get blury for me is that all creatures evolved from the same organism. It just seems to be a little too far fetched. I do believe that all organisms have similar traits because they're all created from water and same earthly elements(iron,carbom,etc.) From my understanding of evolution is that a species will evolve to better adapt to the environment it lives. You can see this in people that live in different parts of the world ; for example,people who live in higher altitudes have larger lungs than others who live at sea level,people who live in hotter climates have more pigmentation in their skin than those that live in cooler places. This, in my opinion,is the wisdom of the One who created these creatures and that everything is subject to the laws of nature.
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Re: Official Religion Thread

Postby AlexisVilaMyHero » Thu Dec 03, 2009 7:51 pm

NoneSoVile wrote:It's a 12 part documentary, that's only the prologue to the story really. It basically shows what happens when science clashes with religion, very cool documentary. Here's part 6/12, enjoy. By the way, those "gaps" in evolution, they were referring to an accusation by creationists. They were claiming evolutionary theories were wrong, but of course, evolutionary theories are factual and confirmed as truths.


Something else that bothers me...I see alot of people saying things like "Evolution is JUST a theory"

Evolution is a scientific theory! Friction and gravity are also scientific theories. (We don't question gravity too much) :lol:


Yup. The funny thing about intelligent design is its argument just keeps getting narrower and narrower over time as these "gaps" (i.e. things evolutionary biology hasn't had the time/technology to explain fully yet) get smaller and smaller.
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Re: Official Religion Thread

Postby NoneSoVile » Thu Dec 03, 2009 8:42 pm

Definately JCVD and Shaka Zulu I completely agree.
It's very complicated and amazing how a few single celled organism with basic protein structures would eventually turn into trees, whales and humans...
I really don't know much about the beginning, but it's definately the most complicated aspect of evolving. I know I have wayyy more questions than answers :lol:

If I had to take a guess on the subject, I could see various single celled organisms competiting in a primative ocean, with slight changes occuring over time...The simple creatures that exhibited a superior change would reproduce and the weaker would fade away...and eventually we could see the first examples of organisms that resembled plants, animals and bacteria.

We've only been around for a few thousand years, and each person only experiences a blink of life on the planet...So it's definately hard for the human brain to comprehend what a billion years is like.
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Re: Official Religion Thread

Postby mcpoopants » Thu Dec 03, 2009 9:35 pm

i was just thinking about making a similiar about questioning why there were so many religion haters around here. i just think its a waisted energy, there are actually things that efect your life that are worth hating , religion shouldnt bother people since it really has no impact on them.
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