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Judo rules.

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Judo rules.

Postby Joelespaul » Tue Aug 03, 2010 11:09 pm

It has always been my dream to join a judo club. I have been attracted to Judo since I was a kid but could never afford it. The other night I finally got the chance to participate in the local Judo club. Unfortunately, I was rather disappointed.

At the end of the Judo class everybody gets a chance to roll with each other. I began trying to take people down and choke them out but kept getting fouled. I learned there are so many rules in Judo. For example, as of January 2010 Judo participants can no longer take their opponent down by grabbing the legs (single or double leg take-downs), also you can not leg lock or guillotine choke anyone. There are many similar rules of this fashion.

Why does Judo incorporate all these rules and do you think that enhances or takes away from Judo? I have come to the conclusion that it maybe makes Judo effective as a competitive sport but severely cripples it as a self defense discipline. If I am wrong, please correct me.
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Re: Judo rules.

Postby InnerSpike » Tue Aug 03, 2010 11:19 pm

Joelespaul wrote: I have come to the conclusion that it maybe makes Judo effective as a competitive sport but severely cripples it as a self defense discipline. If I am wrong, please correct me.

It's my understanding that Judo, itself, is actually one of the martial arts with the smaller competitive scene. I see many Judo classes, but few of them actually train for tournaments/competitions. Mainly b/c Judo is more of a combination of a few other martial arts, but at the same time leaving key parts out. As you explained before, many moves (mainly the leg takedowns) are banned at the higher levels.
Judo as a martial art, however, is an amazing one. It's a jack of all trades and a great way to learn to fuse what you know from standup and grappling. I know Judo has helped me with my takedowns and takedown defense in the clinch when I do my JJ and BJJ.
Judo was never a 'huge' martial arts in the competitive realm. I believe they are trying to create space between Judo and the rest of the martial arts by using those rules to force people to use the core elements of Judo. Instead of using Judo then JJ

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Re: Judo rules.

Postby housexxwins » Tue Aug 03, 2010 11:22 pm

InnerSpike wrote:
Joelespaul wrote: I have come to the conclusion that it maybe makes Judo effective as a competitive sport but severely cripples it as a self defense discipline. If I am wrong, please correct me.

It's my understanding that Judo, itself, is actually one of the martial arts with the smaller competitive scene. I see many Judo classes, but few of them actually train for tournaments/competitions. Mainly b/c Judo is more of a combination of a few other martial arts, but at the same time leaving key parts out. As you explained before, many moves (mainly the leg takedowns) are banned at the higher levels.
Judo as a martial art, however, is an amazing one. It's a jack of all trades and a great way to learn to fuse what you know from standup and grappling. I know Judo has helped me with my takedowns and takedown defense in the clinch when I do my JJ and BJJ.
Judo was never a 'huge' martial arts in the competitive realm. I believe they are trying to create space between Judo and the rest of the martial arts by using those rules to force people to use the core elements of Judo. Instead of using Judo then JJ

InnerSpike


Very well said man. It sounds like pretty solid logic.
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Re: Judo rules.

Postby Joelespaul » Tue Aug 03, 2010 11:47 pm

InnerSpike wrote:
Joelespaul wrote: I have come to the conclusion that it maybe makes Judo effective as a competitive sport but severely cripples it as a self defense discipline. If I am wrong, please correct me.

It's my understanding that Judo, itself, is actually one of the martial arts with the smaller competitive scene. I see many Judo classes, but few of them actually train for tournaments/competitions. Mainly b/c Judo is more of a combination of a few other martial arts, but at the same time leaving key parts out. As you explained before, many moves (mainly the leg takedowns) are banned at the higher levels.
Judo as a martial art, however, is an amazing one. It's a jack of all trades and a great way to learn to fuse what you know from standup and grappling. I know Judo has helped me with my takedowns and takedown defense in the clinch when I do my JJ and BJJ.
Judo was never a 'huge' martial arts in the competitive realm. I believe they are trying to create space between Judo and the rest of the martial arts by using those rules to force people to use the core elements of Judo. Instead of using Judo then JJ

InnerSpike


I can see how it would be very beneficial as a complementary martial art but as a stand alone self-defense system I feel that it lacks. Apparently, and I am from Canada so it could be different here, there are a lot of competitions. I am originally from the West in BC and there also was a lot of opportunity to compete. Living in the middle of Canada on MB there is plebty of opportunity to compete as well. Actually, that's what originally attracted me to Judo.

How would you compare it to BJJ. For example, Judo's strengths and weaknesses with BJJ's strength and weaknesses? And in your opinion which one would be better to take if it was an either or situation?
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Re: Judo rules.

Postby kal2400 » Tue Aug 03, 2010 11:53 pm

While Judo has certain rules they are beneficial to the sport it focuses on certain submissions and throws and leg trips no wrestling takedowns which makes it awesome.
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Re: Judo rules.

Postby EyeTrainUFC » Wed Aug 04, 2010 12:01 am

leglocks, knee locks, ankle locks, wrist locks, and shoulder locks never were a part of judo. i dont understand how you say you always loved judo if you dotnt even know what the sport is really about? youre angry that there are rules you didnt know existed? i dont know what to say to you really. judo is a highly competitive sport, with a huge competitive scene actually, not just a martial art. obviously there will be rules, and many of the leg grab rules came into play because judo started turning into wrestling and i personally think its a great idea to clean it up. as far as grappling avoid the locks i mentioned earlier and you should be fine. our dojo is the second largest in the states member wise and we have people visit from all over the world who practice many martial arts and are fine with the rules. anyway heres a little background for you on judo. taken from the barrington judo site.

"Judo was derived from Ju-Jitsu in the 1880’s by removing the striking (punching, kicking), and dangerous joint-lock techniques. The word Judo in Japanese means, “the gentle way.” Judo is both a sport and a formidable system of self defense. Even as a “gentler” form of martial art, the foundational principles of Judo (balance, efficiency of motion, utilizing opponent’s weight/strength/momentum against them, technique over strength, etc) have proven highly effective while at the same time minimizing the potential for injury. For example, police forces throughout the world require judo training for their officers, due to its effectiveness in subduing an opponent without hurting them. Another example is the success of Judo competitors in the recently popular Mixed Martial Art competitions – the top Judo competitors tend to routinely win in head-to-head bouts with top athletes from other martial arts. Judo was the first martial art to be introduced as an Olympic sport, and remains the most widely practiced martial art. Its popularity worldwide is evidenced by it being 2nd only soccer among all sports."

2nd most practiced sport in the world. i dont know where they get that info from but ive heard that from many people and read it many times. in my judo club you cant just walk in and start doing armbars on your first day. you cant do armbars till youre at least green belt because some random buster off the street can say "i want to be like karo parisyan" and go and break someones arm. we dont want or need that. were not trying to hurt our training partners, we save the real aggressive aspects for tournaments, if youre goal is to choke people till they shit themselves and snap peoples arms judo isnt your sport/martial art.
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Re: Judo rules.

Postby EyeTrainUFC » Wed Aug 04, 2010 12:04 am

It highly depends on the dojo you go to also. we have 15 minutes of grappling sparring every training session. ive only done judo for about a year and never done a grappling art before and many a times choke out or armlock people who have trained bjj and are brown belts. not trying to toot my own horn just saying that judo is effective if youre getting taught right and know what youre doing.
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Re: Judo rules.

Postby Joelespaul » Wed Aug 04, 2010 12:18 am

EyeTrainUFC wrote:leglocks, knee locks, ankle locks, wrist locks, and shoulder locks never were a part of judo. i dont understand how you say you always loved judo if you dotnt even know what the sport is really about? youre angry that there are rules you didnt know existed? i dont know what to say to you really. judo is a highly competitive sport, with a huge competitive scene actually, not just a martial art. obviously there will be rules, and many of the leg grab rules came into play because judo started turning into wrestling and i personally think its a great idea to clean it up. as far as grappling avoid the locks i mentioned earlier and you should be fine. our dojo is the second largest in the states member wise and we have people visit from all over the world who practice many martial arts and are fine with the rules. anyway heres a little background for you on judo. taken from the barrington judo site.

"Judo was derived from Ju-Jitsu in the 1880’s by removing the striking (punching, kicking), and dangerous joint-lock techniques. The word Judo in Japanese means, “the gentle way.” Judo is both a sport and a formidable system of self defense. Even as a “gentler” form of martial art, the foundational principles of Judo (balance, efficiency of motion, utilizing opponent’s weight/strength/momentum against them, technique over strength, etc) have proven highly effective while at the same time minimizing the potential for injury. For example, police forces throughout the world require judo training for their officers, due to its effectiveness in subduing an opponent without hurting them. Another example is the success of Judo competitors in the recently popular Mixed Martial Art competitions – the top Judo competitors tend to routinely win in head-to-head bouts with top athletes from other martial arts. Judo was the first martial art to be introduced as an Olympic sport, and remains the most widely practiced martial art. Its popularity worldwide is evidenced by it being 2nd only soccer among all sports."

2nd most practiced sport in the world. i dont know where they get that info from but ive heard that from many people and read it many times. in my judo club you cant just walk in and start doing armbars on your first day. you cant do armbars till youre at least green belt because some random buster off the street can say "i want to be like karo parisyan" and go and break someones arm. we dont want or need that. were not trying to hurt our training partners, we save the real aggressive aspects for tournaments, if youre goal is to choke people till they shit themselves and snap peoples arms judo isnt your sport/martial art.


Thanks, I appreciate your reply. It is nice to hear from someone who is quite involved in Judo. I did not know that Judo was the 2nd most practiced sport in the world.

First off I just want to say that I think I can have an appreciation for a particular discipline without knowing a lot about it and then as I learn more about it adapt my views. I knew that Judo was not a striking sport - there is not "Judo chop" and have always been attracted to the idea of a martial art that does leave your opponent maimed or severely injured.

Secondly, I wasn't angry at all, I was just making some general observations about Judo through what I have experienced and asked the Linker community to enlighten me which you so kindly did.

Lastly, I can sort of understand not throwing arm bars on people when your green but on the other hand I was interested in seeing how Judo faired against an average Joe like me and wasn't going to simply let people throw me around at the end when we were aloud to fight back. I have been working out steadily for 3.5 years and am quite strong and athletic and I was curious to see how I would fair against a Judo practitioner. When someone is trying to arm bar me you better believe I am going to try and triangle them or whatever - no disrespect.
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Re: Judo rules.

Postby Nicksoap » Wed Aug 04, 2010 12:29 am

Joelespaul wrote:
InnerSpike wrote:
Joelespaul wrote: I have come to the conclusion that it maybe makes Judo effective as a competitive sport but severely cripples it as a self defense discipline. If I am wrong, please correct me.

It's my understanding that Judo, itself, is actually one of the martial arts with the smaller competitive scene. I see many Judo classes, but few of them actually train for tournaments/competitions. Mainly b/c Judo is more of a combination of a few other martial arts, but at the same time leaving key parts out. As you explained before, many moves (mainly the leg takedowns) are banned at the higher levels.
Judo as a martial art, however, is an amazing one. It's a jack of all trades and a great way to learn to fuse what you know from standup and grappling. I know Judo has helped me with my takedowns and takedown defense in the clinch when I do my JJ and BJJ.
Judo was never a 'huge' martial arts in the competitive realm. I believe they are trying to create space between Judo and the rest of the martial arts by using those rules to force people to use the core elements of Judo. Instead of using Judo then JJ

InnerSpike


I can see how it would be very beneficial as a complementary martial art but as a stand alone self-defense system I feel that it lacks. Apparently, and I am from Canada so it could be different here, there are a lot of competitions. I am originally from the West in BC and there also was a lot of opportunity to compete. Living in the middle of Canada on MB there is plebty of opportunity to compete as well. Actually, that's what originally attracted me to Judo.

How would you compare it to BJJ. For example, Judo's strengths and weaknesses with BJJ's strength and weaknesses? And in your opinion which one would be better to take if it was an either or situation?


Judo's strengths are definitely balance and stability. One major focus of judo is throws, if you are very good at defending throws you will be able to stop a lot of other martial arts takedowns. It is very applicable to real life because in a real street fight or self defense situation you do not want to be on the ground. The weakness however is that not a lot of people spend time on the ground aspect of Judo, they rely on BJJ instead but you have to remember judo and jiu jitsu were created to compliment each other and there are a lot of judo ground techniques that differ from BJJ.

I'm a die hard Judo lover since I started doing it as a kid a long time ago, I also love BJJ but the real life BJJ application is not as effective IMO because like I said before going to the ground is extremely dangerous. I don't care how good you are at BJJ if you hit your head on the ground during a submission attempt you'll be in a lot of danger, not to mention the possibility of other guys jumping in and stomping on you. A lot of BJJ practitioners aren't very good at takedowns either, and that's where judo throws come in very handy. I love BJJ as a martial art but not in a real life setting, I personally think Judo is better at keeping you on your feet and safe which is the overall objective...to survive
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Re: Judo rules.

Postby EyeTrainUFC » Wed Aug 04, 2010 12:32 am

oh of course. i think that in no disrespect to your club that letting people get arm barred on their first day like someone did to you is a bad idea. it has nothing to do with someones athleticism, joints arent that hard to pop out. and trust me you wouldnt want to pop a joint just training, when i started for the first 2 weeks probably they taught me how to fall properly, how to breakfall thats the most important part. my instructor told us that in competitions sometimes you get thrown at up to 100mph to the ground, if you dont slap the mat and fall right ribs can break, fingers snap, he said hes seen elbow bones pop out of the skin. i just want to make sure you dont hurt yourself or other people in the dojo you being new to the sport. remember to try to relax when youre grappling, and try to steadily move into better positions, dont waste all your energy quickly. keep your weight on the opponent and let them wig out, get tired, and then it should be a lot easier to get the pin or choke on them. visit judoinfo.com it has videos of throws and pictures of chokes, pins, and armbars. good luck and hope you dont get discouraged cause judo is truly a fun and bad ass martial art.
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Re: Judo rules.

Postby Hoodie » Wed Aug 04, 2010 12:34 am

Joelespaul wrote:It has always been my dream to join a judo club. I have been attracted to Judo since I was a kid but could never afford it. The other night I finally got the chance to participate in the local Judo club. Unfortunately, I was rather disappointed.

At the end of the Judo class everybody gets a chance to roll with each other. I began trying to take people down and choke them out but kept getting fouled. I learned there are so many rules in Judo. For example, as of January 2010 Judo participants can no longer take their opponent down by grabbing the legs (single or double leg take-downs), also you can not leg lock or guillotine choke anyone. There are many similar rules of this fashion.

Why does Judo incorporate all these rules and do you think that enhances or takes away from Judo? I have come to the conclusion that it maybe makes Judo effective as a competitive sport but severely cripples it as a self defense discipline. If I am wrong, please correct me.


I have a friend who has been in BJJ for a while and helps me practice on our spare time, and when we train he often explains that there are different kinds of BJJ, ie : Competition BJJ, where your trained to ONLY fight with a gi and score points, and Combat BJJ, where you train the striking, clinch, takedown, and ultimately the submissions. I don't know too much about Judo, but maybe the dojo that you went to focuses only on competition Judo and therefore is very limited by rules. Maybe you can try to find out if there are other Dojos with less rules towards their Judo.
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Re: Judo rules.

Postby Nicksoap » Wed Aug 04, 2010 12:38 am

Joelespaul wrote:
EyeTrainUFC wrote:leglocks, knee locks, ankle locks, wrist locks, and shoulder locks never were a part of judo. i dont understand how you say you always loved judo if you dotnt even know what the sport is really about? youre angry that there are rules you didnt know existed? i dont know what to say to you really. judo is a highly competitive sport, with a huge competitive scene actually, not just a martial art. obviously there will be rules, and many of the leg grab rules came into play because judo started turning into wrestling and i personally think its a great idea to clean it up. as far as grappling avoid the locks i mentioned earlier and you should be fine. our dojo is the second largest in the states member wise and we have people visit from all over the world who practice many martial arts and are fine with the rules. anyway heres a little background for you on judo. taken from the barrington judo site.

"Judo was derived from Ju-Jitsu in the 1880’s by removing the striking (punching, kicking), and dangerous joint-lock techniques. The word Judo in Japanese means, “the gentle way.” Judo is both a sport and a formidable system of self defense. Even as a “gentler” form of martial art, the foundational principles of Judo (balance, efficiency of motion, utilizing opponent’s weight/strength/momentum against them, technique over strength, etc) have proven highly effective while at the same time minimizing the potential for injury. For example, police forces throughout the world require judo training for their officers, due to its effectiveness in subduing an opponent without hurting them. Another example is the success of Judo competitors in the recently popular Mixed Martial Art competitions – the top Judo competitors tend to routinely win in head-to-head bouts with top athletes from other martial arts. Judo was the first martial art to be introduced as an Olympic sport, and remains the most widely practiced martial art. Its popularity worldwide is evidenced by it being 2nd only soccer among all sports."

2nd most practiced sport in the world. i dont know where they get that info from but ive heard that from many people and read it many times. in my judo club you cant just walk in and start doing armbars on your first day. you cant do armbars till youre at least green belt because some random buster off the street can say "i want to be like karo parisyan" and go and break someones arm. we dont want or need that. were not trying to hurt our training partners, we save the real aggressive aspects for tournaments, if youre goal is to choke people till they shit themselves and snap peoples arms judo isnt your sport/martial art.


Thanks, I appreciate your reply. It is nice to hear from someone who is quite involved in Judo. I did not know that Judo was the 2nd most practiced sport in the world.

First off I just want to say that I think I can have an appreciation for a particular discipline without knowing a lot about it and then as I learn more about it adapt my views. I knew that Judo was not a striking sport - there is not "Judo chop" and have always been attracted to the idea of a martial art that does leave your opponent maimed or severely injured.

Secondly, I wasn't angry at all, I was just making some general observations about Judo through what I have experienced and asked the Linker community to enlighten me which you so kindly did.

Lastly, I can sort of understand not throwing arm bars on people when your green but on the other hand I was interested in seeing how Judo faired against an average Joe like me and wasn't going to simply let people throw me around at the end when we were aloud to fight back. I have been working out steadily for 3.5 years and am quite strong and athletic and I was curious to see how I would fair against a Judo practitioner. When someone is trying to arm bar me you better believe I am going to try and triangle them or whatever - no disrespect.


I like the fact that you have been interested in judo for a long time but not knowing the rules seems sort of odd to me. If I loved baseball i would sure as hell like to know how to play. One thing you said really stuck out to me which I highlighted, you said you were athletic and work out and wanted to use your strength against a judo practitioner but one of the first things I learned when I started training judo was that it's about technique and even guys that were very outweighed could use their opponents weight and momentum against them, it's a basic principal and I would have suggested a little more research before just jumping in to a class. I like the fact that you were willing to give it a try and hope you continue to do so because you will learn a great deal. Judo is a sport that is often overlooked by today's average mma fans which is unfortunate.
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Re: Judo rules.

Postby cman » Wed Aug 04, 2010 12:38 am

I personally don't like to be limited for what locks I can go for and how to take people down so I've never been a huge judo fan. For some reason I doubt it is the 2nd most practiced sport....
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