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JohnKG: Workout Log

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JohnKG: Workout Log

Postby JohnKG » Sat Sep 04, 2010 5:53 pm

Good afternoon:

I guess i'm suppose to start by saying i'm 6'1", 26 yo and weigh 233.6 lbs with a BF% of 35.7.

I'm currently training in Muay Thai (though I haven't been for a while due to work), but eventually want to make a full transition into MMA. Ultimately, I'd like to weigh 185 lbs, as the best shape of my adult life I was 166.6 lbs with a 6.6 BF%, and well as you could imagine... I looked relatively small. I think adding about 20 lbs of muscle to that physique would be just what I was looking for. Ideally... though it wouldn't be that probable as i'm about 4 years older since then.

Anyway, on to what looks like will be my workout:

Monday - Saturday:

Mornings

Yoga X (P90X dvd)

Afternoons / Evenings

Burpees (5 minutes) x5
Mountain Climbers (1 minute) x5
Shadow Boxing w/ resistance bands (5 minutes)
100 back leg kicks (focusing on technique)
100 front leg kicks (focusing on technique)

MWF

12x4 Squats (135)
12x4 Dead lifts (135)
10x4 Good Mornings (55)
15x5 Side Lunges
Ab Ripper X (P90X dvd)
Split Jump (1 minute) x2
Ice Bath

TRS

10x5 Bench Press (125)
10x5 Barbell Row (100)
15x5 Shrugs (50 rt 50 lt)
10x2 Supine Curls
10x2 Hammer Curls
10x2 Preacher Curls
5x5 tricep kickbacks
100x1 crunches
100x1 wide leg crunches
1x2 6-inches (1 = 60 seconds)
Ice Bath

I'm a pretty athletic person, very explosive movements and i've got a lot of energy. However I lack in the strength department although i've been told I have rather heavy hands (which I guess is power?).

Any input is greatly appreciated, and any questions are more than welcome. If I'm doing too much or not doing enough. My goals are utlimately to increase my overall power, explosiveness, speed, quickness and endurance while losing weight, but mainly BF%. I understand I may not lose the weight, I keep seeing the 5x5 program being mentioned, but after reading about it I believe I remember it saying people lost body fat percentage without losing weight which is exactly what I don't want to happen. I'd like to see improvements in weight room while seeing my BF% and weight decrease.

Thanks again. I start Monday!!

Edit: Forgot to add that rest times between sets are 30 - 60 seconds.
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Re: JohnKG: Workout Log

Postby JohnKG » Wed Sep 08, 2010 9:10 am

I should clarify. Starting the monday coming up. Taking this week to get acclimated to my more nutritious diet.
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Re: JohnKG: Workout Log

Postby KC Masterpiece » Wed Sep 08, 2010 2:15 pm

Welcome, JohnKG.
MurderfaceMMA wrote:A few years ago i was downloading all the UFCs from torrent sites. One day my internet was shut off, and when i called the provider, they said the UFCs lawyers called and got an injunction to shut down my internet.

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Re: JohnKG: Workout Log

Postby JohnKG » Thu Sep 09, 2010 9:59 am

KC Masterpiece wrote:Welcome, JohnKG.


Thank you.
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Re: JohnKG: Workout Log

Postby red_donn » Sat Sep 11, 2010 4:23 pm

Welcome John - got your email, so let's get down to it shall we? :D

First, let's talk goal-setting. You are at 35.7% bf and that is really high, your lean mass is only 150 pounds atm. If you added zero lean body mass and got down to 165, you would be at ten percent bodyfat, but that all seems like a bloody long way to go as 1) you will added lean mass and 2) you are aiming for roughly 180.

Now, bear in mind that I've been up and down the scale a bit myself, and actually was at a similar weight/height/BF to you at your fittest a while ago. Now, you aren't going to just be able to hit your former build with 20 pounds of extra muscle as that would drop your BF under 6%, which is a bitch to maintain - I say that from experience. The way to having a great body without sitting around obsessing over it is to pile on lean muscle and get your BF to 13 percent or less. I've had a few girls tell me how refreshing it is to be with a guy who still looks good after a big meal, rather than skinny-ish weak guys who look fat afterward.

So, in that regard, I wouldn't be the slightest bit worried about adding some lean mass to your frame and seeing your BMI go up, even if it slows down the scale. You could use the mass buddy, and a low BMI is actually the ticket to a great looking body in the modern world, not low weight. High weight with a low BMI, in fact, is the best look, unless you are chasing hipster chicks - in which case you need to buy some really skinny jeans and consume nothing but coffee, cigarettes, and cocaine until they fit. That's the "Kate Moss Diet," btw.

Now, if you want the key to weightloss, here it is - burn more calories than you eat. There are all sorts of ways to accomplish this, but I've got a fun fact for you: people who performed weight training for the same amount of time as people doing steady-state cardio burned slightly less calories during the workout, but burned an additional 700 calories more over the course of the next 24 hours.

Got an idea why basic barbell lifting might be good for you? If you aren't eating a lot and you wise up with your lifting, it'll result in serious strength gains as your nervous system adapts while also priming you for weightloss. Ironically, you are currently lifting with 10-15 reps, which is fine for getting form down but you aren't really lifting with a plan at this point. For weight training to matter you generally either add weight or reps - I see neither in this plan. Your current rep range is considered the hypertrophy range (gaining mass) and you are worrying about 5x5, which is actually a blend of size/strength depending primarily on nutrition. Of course, considering the weight you are using and the lack of progression, you aren't going to get a fraction of the benefits either way.

Because currently, your lifting program is....not good. You are working out a ton, which is a good sign if you are willing to work smart, but 6 sets of bicep variations followed by five sets of kickbacks honestly made me cringe. And quit it with the crunches - we have a topic on proper abdominal training in this forum that explains exactly why most crunch work is retarded.

In summation - get on a reputable lifting program if you want to get stronger, better looking, and fitter overall. Diet will control how much mass you gain and currently you are not going to make any proper progress with your program. Even if you are losing overall weight with minimal lean mass gains, you are still very weak at this point and the gains in your nervous system will make up most of your strength increases for the first month or two. Start doing some intervals, sprints, complexes, or "carrying" work for cardio either on your off days or at least three hours after your strength workouts, preferably on your off days.
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Re: JohnKG: Workout Log

Postby JohnKG » Sat Sep 11, 2010 6:36 pm

red_donn wrote:Welcome John - got your email, so let's get down to it shall we? :D

First, let's talk goal-setting. You are at 35.7% bf and that is really high, your lean mass is only 150 pounds atm. If you added zero lean body mass and got down to 165, you would be at ten percent bodyfat, but that all seems like a bloody long way to go as 1) you will added lean mass and 2) you are aiming for roughly 180.

Now, bear in mind that I've been up and down the scale a bit myself, and actually was at a similar weight/height/BF to you at your fittest a while ago. Now, you aren't going to just be able to hit your former build with 20 pounds of extra muscle as that would drop your BF under 6%, which is a bitch to maintain - I say that from experience. The way to having a great body without sitting around obsessing over it is to pile on lean muscle and get your BF to 13 percent or less. I've had a few girls tell me how refreshing it is to be with a guy who still looks good after a big meal, rather than skinny-ish weak guys who look fat afterward.

So, in that regard, I wouldn't be the slightest bit worried about adding some lean mass to your frame and seeing your BMI go up, even if it slows down the scale. You could use the mass buddy, and a low BMI is actually the ticket to a great looking body in the modern world, not low weight. High weight with a low BMI, in fact, is the best look, unless you are chasing hipster chicks - in which case you need to buy some really skinny jeans and consume nothing but coffee, cigarettes, and cocaine until they fit. That's the "Kate Moss Diet," btw.

Now, if you want the key to weightloss, here it is - burn more calories than you eat. There are all sorts of ways to accomplish this, but I've got a fun fact for you: people who performed weight training for the same amount of time as people doing steady-state cardio burned slightly less calories during the workout, but burned an additional 700 calories more over the course of the next 24 hours.

Got an idea why basic barbell lifting might be good for you? If you aren't eating a lot and you wise up with your lifting, it'll result in serious strength gains as your nervous system adapts while also priming you for weightloss. Ironically, you are currently lifting with 10-15 reps, which is fine for getting form down but you aren't really lifting with a plan at this point. For weight training to matter you generally either add weight or reps - I see neither in this plan. Your current rep range is considered the hypertrophy range (gaining mass) and you are worrying about 5x5, which is actually a blend of size/strength depending primarily on nutrition. Of course, considering the weight you are using and the lack of progression, you aren't going to get a fraction of the benefits either way.

Because currently, your lifting program is....not good. You are working out a ton, which is a good sign if you are willing to work smart, but 6 sets of bicep variations followed by five sets of kickbacks honestly made me cringe. And quit it with the crunches - we have a topic on proper abdominal training in this forum that explains exactly why most crunch work is retarded.

In summation - get on a reputable lifting program if you want to get stronger, better looking, and fitter overall. Diet will control how much mass you gain and currently you are not going to make any proper progress with your program. Even if you are losing overall weight with minimal lean mass gains, you are still very weak at this point and the gains in your nervous system will make up most of your strength increases for the first month or two. Start doing some intervals, sprints, complexes, or "carrying" work for cardio either on your off days or at least three hours after your strength workouts, preferably on your off days.


Thanks for the reply.

That's what I was afraid of though. Doing a lot of work for no real reason, when I could just adopt a program that would get me the same results in less time if I follow it correctly. Which program would you recommend for building explosiveness in translation to Muay Thai, while being able to drop weight to get to my desired weight class.

I thought it may be easier to slim down and then concentrate on building up lean mass, but might it just be easier for me to watch my nutrition and work my way down to that point while making gains in lifting?
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Re: JohnKG: Workout Log

Postby red_donn » Wed Sep 15, 2010 6:13 am

My favorite Beginner's program is Starting Strength. Combining the warm-ups with 15 "work reps" for most exercises gives you 30 or more reps per exercise to learn the form, which is important for beginners. It also introduces you to all of the "Big 5" lifts.

http://startingstrength.wikia.com/wiki/The_Starting_Strength_Novice/Beginner_Programs

As to explosiveness, that is heavily correlated with strength. Strength is the ability to move an object (in very simple terms) while explosiveness (power in weightlifting terms) is the ability to accelerate an object. Again, simple terms, but in physics/kinesiology they share a ton of the same variables. Get stronger and you will get more explosive in general. The powercleans will especially add to your explosiveness because they are a "power" movement where you have got to learn to explode in a coordinated fashion.

Do SS with some kind of intelligent, manageable cardio on the off days (see the recent "dropping weight" topic) and spend two weeks monitoring your diet with a nutritional log (look up the calories, protein/fat/carb intake online for everything you are eating) until you have a very, very accurate sense of what you eat. Then, depending on how your body responds to the new exercise regimen, we can adjust your diet to get the weight results you are looking for.
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Re: JohnKG: Workout Log

Postby JohnKG » Wed Sep 15, 2010 8:32 am

red_donn wrote:My favorite Beginner's program is Starting Strength. Combining the warm-ups with 15 "work reps" for most exercises gives you 30 or more reps per exercise to learn the form, which is important for beginners. It also introduces you to all of the "Big 5" lifts.

http://startingstrength.wikia.com/wiki/The_Starting_Strength_Novice/Beginner_Programs

As to explosiveness, that is heavily correlated with strength. Strength is the ability to move an object (in very simple terms) while explosiveness (power in weightlifting terms) is the ability to accelerate an object. Again, simple terms, but in physics/kinesiology they share a ton of the same variables. Get stronger and you will get more explosive in general. The powercleans will especially add to your explosiveness because they are a "power" movement where you have got to learn to explode in a coordinated fashion.

Do SS with some kind of intelligent, manageable cardio on the off days (see the recent "dropping weight" topic) and spend two weeks monitoring your diet with a nutritional log (look up the calories, protein/fat/carb intake online for everything you are eating) until you have a very, very accurate sense of what you eat. Then, depending on how your body responds to the new exercise regimen, we can adjust your diet to get the weight results you are looking for.


I've done the nutrution calorie counting before and could handle the nutrition part fairly easy while working out, whether it be cardio or weights. So the explosiveness from the exercises seems to be right down the alley that i'm looking for. I can't pull up the link right now since i'm at work, though I may be able to view it on my phone. I'll look at it and comment later today.
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Re: JohnKG: Workout Log

Postby JohnKG » Wed Sep 15, 2010 9:28 pm

Alright..

So I've taken a look at the links and can honestly say, I don't think I want to do the press for the time being.

I've got shoulder injury problems, impingement tendonitis (pardon the spelling), and it hurts when I do overhead motions at times. Could already see the worst case scenario playing out, even as I work on form. I'm not saying I won't pick it up, but i'll probably follow the suggestion of throwing in pull ups until I strengthen my shoulders.

So on to the workout i've selected..

I've decided to go with "The Original Starting Strength Novice Program."

With the aforementioned, pull up switch. (please suggest other another exercise that will target and work just as well if not better)

I also was curious if it would be naive for me to continue working on yoga every morning.... I'm not sure if that would have some sort of effect on my recovery, since it tends to hurt when i'm done at my current level. Flexibility seems to be improving though.

Sorry for the tangent..

Another concern is that the workout plan seems to hit everything between my knees and shoulders.. I know we're not suppose to add anything to the program as it's suggested to be complete for it's nature and intended purpose, but what about my calf muscles?? I'm not experienced much on weight lifting. I was the guy that sat at the ellyptical, doing his early morning 3 mile run, watching guys like you all in awe...in the most heterosexual way possible. So I'm not sure if they're, the calf muscles, getting a workout as well.

Thanks for your time and help.

The more this is starting to come together the more motivation i'm getting.
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Re: JohnKG: Workout Log

Postby red_donn » Thu Sep 16, 2010 12:44 am

Don't sweat the calf muscles much in the weight room right now - you have far more pressing concerns. Once we've got your core (not the abs, but the functional core radiating out from the hips) built up, the calves may have a place to be added in, but I leave that for intermediate routines. Powercleans will activate your calves and if you are doing sprints or jump-rope that'll be enough.

I'll say up front that overhead pressing is actually used as a cure for shoulder problems. The common problems with the rotator cuff these days, with the exception of baseball pitchers, can often be traced to a lack of overhead work. In fact, when the overhead press was the standard of strength, anatomy textbooks didn't include a single mention of the rotator cuff because it never got injured. Now, as I'm not a doctor and don't know your situation, I won't insist that you perform the overhead presses, but I will say that many strength coaches introduce the overhead press into workouts in order to cure shoulder injuries. By starting light and increasing slowly, which is the point of this program, you may actually do your shoulders a lot of good.

At any rate, if you don't do overhead pressing, do not stick in pull-ups. The thought of doing pull-ups to failure for three sets directly before doing heavy powercleans is a painful one. You should squat, press, and pull (preferably pull weight off the floor) every day with this formula. If you have to remove the overhead press (I favor it over any other press) then you could substitute an incline press, floor press, or weighted dips.

As to yoga - I've got no issues with it. Flexibility and keeping your muscle quality good is fine by me - just so long as you don't consider it the same as strength training or "practical" cardio. According to Dan John, a top quality S&C coach, intense Bikram yoga once a week has been great for him and he recommends it in general. Therefore, spending some time each day with yoga shouldn't be a huge issue with recovery, in fact Dan John believes it should help most people.
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Re: JohnKG: Workout Log

Postby JohnKG » Thu Sep 16, 2010 10:35 am

Ok cool.

thanks for the advice.. I'll go ahead and throw in the press for the time being and see how my shoulder fares.

I planned on jumping rope before I stretched, pre workout. So I'll just increase time and intensity as I progress to shock my calf muscles for the time being. I've been planning on doing some serious interval runs. More than likely in the morning. Maybe alternate between interval runs some mornings and yoga on the others.

So I've got a better idea of what to do now... I guess i'll look over some stuff and i'll post my workout later and start it Monday.

Also.. am I really supposed to be increasing the weight each workout?
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Re: JohnKG: Workout Log

Postby red_donn » Fri Sep 17, 2010 6:53 pm

JohnKG wrote:Ok cool.

thanks for the advice.. I'll go ahead and throw in the press for the time being and see how my shoulder fares.

1) I planned on jumping rope before I stretched, pre workout. So I'll just increase time and intensity as I progress to shock my calf muscles for the time being. I've been planning on doing some serious interval runs. More than likely in the morning. Maybe alternate between interval runs some mornings and yoga on the others.

So I've got a better idea of what to do now... I guess i'll look over some stuff and i'll post my workout later and start it Monday.

2) Also.. am I really supposed to be increasing the weight each workout?


1) Do not do heavy cardio before lifting. If they are on the same day, make sure to do your lifting first, or else very light cardio earlier in the day A warm-up can, and some believe should, leave you sweating but if your jump-rope detracts from your lifting, then stop. Don't spend time focusing on your calves until you've got serious quads, hams, hips, and glutes. Not to mention a developed back.

2) YES
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Re: JohnKG: Workout Log

Postby JohnKG » Sat Sep 18, 2010 10:15 pm

red_donn wrote:
JohnKG wrote:Ok cool.

thanks for the advice.. I'll go ahead and throw in the press for the time being and see how my shoulder fares.

1) I planned on jumping rope before I stretched, pre workout. So I'll just increase time and intensity as I progress to shock my calf muscles for the time being. I've been planning on doing some serious interval runs. More than likely in the morning. Maybe alternate between interval runs some mornings and yoga on the others.

So I've got a better idea of what to do now... I guess i'll look over some stuff and i'll post my workout later and start it Monday.

2) Also.. am I really supposed to be increasing the weight each workout?


1) Do not do heavy cardio before lifting. If they are on the same day, make sure to do your lifting first, or else very light cardio earlier in the day A warm-up can, and some believe should, leave you sweating but if your jump-rope detracts from your lifting, then stop. Don't spend time focusing on your calves until you've got serious quads, hams, hips, and glutes. Not to mention a developed back.

2) YES


1.) K. That's cool. After reevaluating my schedule, I'll be working out about 3 hours before practice on Monday, Wednesdays and Fridays. So that works out well then.

2.) Hmmm... Seems interresting.
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Re: JohnKG: Workout Log

Postby red_donn » Sun Sep 19, 2010 6:08 pm

JohnKG wrote:
red_donn wrote:
JohnKG wrote:Ok cool.

thanks for the advice.. I'll go ahead and throw in the press for the time being and see how my shoulder fares.

1) I planned on jumping rope before I stretched, pre workout. So I'll just increase time and intensity as I progress to shock my calf muscles for the time being. I've been planning on doing some serious interval runs. More than likely in the morning. Maybe alternate between interval runs some mornings and yoga on the others.

So I've got a better idea of what to do now... I guess i'll look over some stuff and i'll post my workout later and start it Monday.

2) Also.. am I really supposed to be increasing the weight each workout?


1) Do not do heavy cardio before lifting. If they are on the same day, make sure to do your lifting first, or else very light cardio earlier in the day A warm-up can, and some believe should, leave you sweating but if your jump-rope detracts from your lifting, then stop. Don't spend time focusing on your calves until you've got serious quads, hams, hips, and glutes. Not to mention a developed back.

2) YES


1.) K. That's cool. After reevaluating my schedule, I'll be working out about 3 hours before practice on Monday, Wednesdays and Fridays. So that works out well then.

2.) Hmmm... Seems interresting.


Maybe I should elaborate on point two. :lol:

It has been said again and again by top people in the strength field - you want to either increase your reps or weight as often as you can while being able to make long term progress. For a beginner like you, that means you should be increasing the weight daily, using smart intervals and building up to, then surpassing, your old records.

Linera progress is the fastest, simplest way to gain strength and muscle. The longer you can continue to use that approach, the faster you will gain strength. Moving over to weekly increases in strength is an intermediate step where one has to slow down the rate of gains in order to make sure that steady progress continues, but if we could continue increasing the weight a couple times a week, you better believe we would. After all, that's what will make us strongest in the long run, and short run for that matter.

As to the mental aspects, because it certainly sounds challenging to increase the weight every day - that's why strength training is so character building. It makes you work hard and cuts out the excuseses that you can heap on almost every other form of training. I recommend buying 1.25 pound microplates so you can increase weight by 2.5 pounds per day on your presses and even the squats at certain points - it's a great $40 investment.
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Re: JohnKG: Workout Log

Postby JohnKG » Sun Sep 19, 2010 7:50 pm

Morning:

Yoga

Afternoon:

Workout A
3x5 Squat
3x5 Bench Press
1x5 Deadlift

Workout B
3x5 Squat
3x5 Press
Chin-Ups: 3 sets to failure or add weight if completing more than 15 reps

Workouts A and B alternate on 3 non-consecutive days per week

Evening:

Muay Thai
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