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Re: Israeli Abuse

Postby willmma » Thu Jan 17, 2019 3:36 pm

Shuck wrote:
willmma wrote:
Shuck wrote:Israel has been open for years in discussing the 2 State Solution.


Are you totally incapable of reading?

The Israeli government is saying it loud and clear:
Prime Minister Netanyahu: never wants a Palestinian state
Nafteli never wants a Palestinian state
Avigdor Leiberman: "doesnt care" for a Palestinian state
Minister of Justice Shaked: No Palestinian state. Also thinks Palestinian blood should be on Israeli hands
Minister of Construction Gallant Dismisses Palestinian state, calls to annex West Bank
Minister of Science Akunis: A Palestinian state is a catastrophe

Where in all of that do you see that Israel is open to a 2 state solution?

Shuck wrote:. Its been made very clear that both sides will never budge on the others terms.. that is why present day Israel has its stance, only dummies will continue to go down that endless path.


terms? Here are the terms:
Israelis: never allow a Palestinian state. Annex the west bank.
Palestinians: accept 2 state solution

if only one of them would budge on their terms, right?


and unfortunately the Israeli abuse continues.



they tried yah goof, why are you so incappable of checking your historical facts& why are you totally incappable of coming to terms & admitting the facts; that Palestinians & their neighbors chose War instead of "COEXISTANCE" Your favorite word? why can't you bring yourself to acknowledge this simple fact?



Historical fact: Israel ethnically cleansed Palestinians in 1948
Historical fact: Golda Meir denied the existence of the Palestinians
Historical fact: Israel illegally occupied and continues to occupy Palestinian territory in violation of UN resolution 242.
Historical fact: Palestinian presidents have recognized Israel since 1988 (for 30 years)
Historical fact: Palestinians participated and signed Oslo accord with hope to get a state of their own
Historical fact: Settlements quadrupled since Oslo was signed
Historical fact: Palestinians agreed to Arab Peace Initiative for 2 state solution and full normalization of relations between Israel and All arab states
Historical fact: Israel never responded to the Arab peace Initiative
Historical fact: Israeli leaders say they will never allow a Palestinian state

But you want some real, thought out, studied and thoroughly expressed lessons in Israeli history?

For anyone interested, listen to Israeli Historian Ilan Pappe talk about the occupation and the ethnic cleansing policies that started from before 1948



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Re: Israeli Abuse

Postby willmma » Thu Jan 17, 2019 5:27 pm

Former Jerusalem Mayor Nir Barkat pledges to block establishment of Palestinian state, will push for sovereignty in Judea and Samaria.

But why dwell on what's happening now, lets focus on the past. Amarite?
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Re: Israeli Abuse

Postby Shuck » Thu Jan 17, 2019 10:14 pm

willmma wrote:
Shuck wrote:
willmma wrote:
Shuck wrote:Israel has been open for years in discussing the 2 State Solution.


Are you totally incapable of reading?

The Israeli government is saying it loud and clear:
Prime Minister Netanyahu: never wants a Palestinian state
Nafteli never wants a Palestinian state
Avigdor Leiberman: "doesnt care" for a Palestinian state
Minister of Justice Shaked: No Palestinian state. Also thinks Palestinian blood should be on Israeli hands
Minister of Construction Gallant Dismisses Palestinian state, calls to annex West Bank
Minister of Science Akunis: A Palestinian state is a catastrophe

Where in all of that do you see that Israel is open to a 2 state solution?

Shuck wrote:. Its been made very clear that both sides will never budge on the others terms.. that is why present day Israel has its stance, only dummies will continue to go down that endless path.


terms? Here are the terms:
Israelis: never allow a Palestinian state. Annex the west bank.
Palestinians: accept 2 state solution

if only one of them would budge on their terms, right?


and unfortunately the Israeli abuse continues.



they tried yah goof, why are you so incappable of checking your historical facts& why are you totally incappable of coming to terms & admitting the facts; that Palestinians & their neighbors chose War instead of "COEXISTANCE" Your favorite word? why can't you bring yourself to acknowledge this simple fact?



Historical fact: Israel ethnically cleansed Palestinians in 1948
Historical fact: Golda Meir denied the existence of the Palestinians
Historical fact: Israel illegally occupied and continues to occupy Palestinian territory in violation of UN resolution 242.
Historical fact: Palestinian presidents have recognized Israel since 1988 (for 30 years)
Historical fact: Palestinians participated and signed Oslo accord with hope to get a state of their own
Historical fact: Settlements quadrupled since Oslo was signed
Historical fact: Palestinians agreed to Arab Peace Initiative for 2 state solution and full normalization of relations between Israel and All arab states
Historical fact: Israel never responded to the Arab peace Initiative
Historical fact: Israeli leaders say they will never allow a Palestinian state

But you want some real, thought out, studied and thoroughly expressed lessons in Israeli history?

For anyone interested, listen to Israeli Historian Ilan Pappe talk about the occupation and the ethnic cleansing policies that started from before 1948





this is how Twisted your mind is; Brit declares a 2 State Solution, Jews move into their side, a War breaks out w/the Arab Countries that refuse to recognize Israel as a state & he calls this "Ethnic Cleansing" that shows how warped your mind is. What happened to "2 States" Will? "CoExistance" your favorite word, is it only relevant after they lose a War?

Some quotes from Golda Meir:
"When peace comes we will perhaps in time be able to forgive the Arabs for killing our sons, but it will be harder for us to forgive them for having forced us to kill their sons."
"Peace will come when the Arabs will love their children more than they hate us."

Thanks for providing that Link, worked about as well as this thread has for yah :beer:

Please dig deeper into the terms that the Palestinians agreed to a 2 State Solution.. we would love to see those :tup:

Don't yah find it a tad bit weird that you are so obsessed about a place yet too fearful to visit & see if all you believe is really true?
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Re: Israeli Abuse

Postby willmma » Fri Jan 18, 2019 12:03 am

Shuck wrote:
willmma wrote:Historical fact: Israel ethnically cleansed Palestinians in 1948
Historical fact: Golda Meir denied the existence of the Palestinians
Historical fact: Israel illegally occupied and continues to occupy Palestinian territory in violation of UN resolution 242.
Historical fact: Palestinian presidents have recognized Israel since 1988 (for 30 years)
Historical fact: Palestinians participated and signed Oslo accord with hope to get a state of their own
Historical fact: Settlements quadrupled since Oslo was signed
Historical fact: Palestinians agreed to Arab Peace Initiative for 2 state solution and full normalization of relations between Israel and All arab states
Historical fact: Israel never responded to the Arab peace Initiative
Historical fact: Israeli leaders say they will never allow a Palestinian state

But you want some real, thought out, studied and thoroughly expressed lessons in Israeli history?

For anyone interested, listen to Israeli Historian Ilan Pappe talk about the occupation and the ethnic cleansing policies that started from before 1948





this is how Twisted your mind is; Brit declares a 2 State Solution, Jews move into their side, a War breaks out w/the Arab Countries that refuse to recognize Israel as a state & he calls this "Ethnic Cleansing" that shows how warped your mind is. What happened to "2 States" Will? "CoExistance" your favorite word, is it only relevant after they lose a War?


It's not my words man, its the words of Israeli historian Ilan Pappe. In the 1.5 hour interview above he details the ethnic cleansing process in 1948.
Take it up with him.

Shuck wrote:Some quotes from Golda Meir:
"When peace comes we will perhaps in time be able to forgive the Arabs for killing our sons, but it will be harder for us to forgive them for having forced us to kill their sons."

"Peace will come when the Arabs will love their children more than they hate us."


How heart felt by Golda, she will never forgive the arabs for killing their children. typical twisted Israeli mental gymnastics.
I wonder if these soldiers will ever forgive these guys they shot


Golda is a prime example of the twisted and sick logic of killing and blaming the victim.


So,
Israeli historians say Israel ethnically cleansed 80% the Palestinian population in 1948, to make room for the newly arrived Jews from europe.
Israel illegally occupied the West Bank and Gaza Strip in 1967
Israel illegally settles the west bank. Settlements have quadrupled since Israel signed the Oslo agreement in 1993
Israelis assassinated their PM when he signed the Oslo peace accord in 1995
Israel illegally abuses and kills Palestinian civilians - like documented by so many journalists and medical staff, all the time
Israel says it will never accept a Palestinian state, killing any prosepect of a 2 state peace solution. Present day
Shuck doesnt know what borders Israel should negotiate but wants them badly
Shuck cant get himself to condemn shooting kids in the head for fun.
And according to Golda Meir, she will never forgive the parents of that kid.

bravo Shuck
bravo Israel
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Re: Israeli Abuse

Postby PainDog » Fri Jan 18, 2019 1:25 am

Shuck you mention the 1947 partition plan as if the proposal was to divide the land proportionately between the Arab population and the Jewish population.

That however was not the case, despite being at most 33% of the population in Palestine the proposal would have given them over 50% of the total, and in position to control the majority sparse resources in the land.

Even the Jewish migration to Palestine during the English mandate which managed to increase the Jewish population in the region was largely due to illegal migration the Aliyah Bet.

Again to make a sort of analogy, it would be as if in what would become the United States, Native Americans rejected a proposal made by European American colonists which would remove them from their land, give away nearly all of their resources, and gave the majority of the land and resources to a European minority group.

Despite all of the attempts to try and twist things around in Palestine, the root will always be the occupation. Hamas didn't exist before the occupation, Hezbollah didn't exist before the occupation, all of these so called terrorists factions are a response not a cause.

As mentioned earlier the first terrorist groups in the region were Jewish, such as Lehi.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Walter_Gu ... aron_Moyne



^^a good video explaining the origins of the conflict and also western media sensationalism
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Re: Israeli Abuse

Postby PainDog » Fri Jan 18, 2019 1:42 am

I have no problems with Israeli people, any more than I have a problem with any other population.

At this point there have been several generations of Jewish Israelis (most of them with roots in Europe and other parts of the Middle East) born and raised in Israel. I could no more fault these people for being born in Israel than I could fault a European American for being born in America.

My favorite contemporary author is an Israeli historian, Yuval Noah Hariri; also one of my favorite musicians is Avishai Cohen and I have shared his version of Shalom Aleichem with many different Arab (Qataris, Lebanese, Tunisian, etc.) people here in Qatar. I asked them at first to guess where the band was from, most would suggest Turkish, when I told them Israeli, they were not appalled, but said Jewish music (that with a middle eastern twist) is nice.




The practices of the Israel government and of the settlers are the actions of a tyrannical force. The Zionist movement, that wants to ensure Israel is always Jewish, or in the words of Murderface "belongs to the Jews", means part of the population will always be favored over others. Imagine if someone said the United States will always belong to the Whites. That is prejudice and discrimination being built into the fabrics of the country's identity, country that will built on top of an indigenous people...
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Re: Israeli Abuse

Postby Shuck » Fri Jan 18, 2019 10:52 am

PainDog wrote:Shuck you mention the 1947 partition plan as if the proposal was to divide the land proportionately between the Arab population and the Jewish population.

That however was not the case, despite being at most 33% of the population in Palestine the proposal would have given them over 50% of the total, and in position to control the majority sparse resources in the land.

Even the Jewish migration to Palestine during the English mandate which managed to increase the Jewish population in the region was largely due to illegal migration the Aliyah Bet.

Again to make a sort of analogy, it would be as if in what would become the United States, Native Americans rejected a proposal made by European American colonists which would remove them from their land, give away nearly all of their resources, and gave the majority of the land and resources to a European minority group.

Despite all of the attempts to try and twist things around in Palestine, the root will always be the occupation. Hamas didn't exist before the occupation, Hezbollah didn't exist before the occupation, all of these so called terrorists factions are a response not a cause.

As mentioned earlier the first terrorist groups in the region were Jewish, such as Lehi.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Walter_Gu ... aron_Moyne



^^a good video explaining the origins of the conflict and also western media sensationalism


Ill make sure to be very clear on my stance.

Do I think its unfair that Palestinians that were living there had to move, Yes absolutely
Do I think its unfair that 6million Jews were murdered in the Holocaust, Yes I sure do

But sometimes life ain't fair, shit happens & you adapt.

Lets put aside the Israelites history on that land... That land wasn't a Palestinian Country, it was controlled by Britain.. so you cannot compare it to what Native Americans went through.

The Palestinians weren't happy w/the 2 State Option so they decided to fight for that Land w/the Assistance of an Arab Coalition.. They fought & they lost

So just like nearly every square inch of land on this god green earth, there was a fight for it & the winner had the right to claim it.

The saddest thing here is how the Neighboring Countries turned their backs on the Palestinians, they should of been welcoming all those refugees in w/open arms.
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Re: Israeli Abuse

Postby Shuck » Fri Jan 18, 2019 11:08 am

willmma wrote:
Shuck wrote:
willmma wrote:Historical fact: Israel ethnically cleansed Palestinians in 1948
Historical fact: Golda Meir denied the existence of the Palestinians
Historical fact: Israel illegally occupied and continues to occupy Palestinian territory in violation of UN resolution 242.
Historical fact: Palestinian presidents have recognized Israel since 1988 (for 30 years)
Historical fact: Palestinians participated and signed Oslo accord with hope to get a state of their own
Historical fact: Settlements quadrupled since Oslo was signed
Historical fact: Palestinians agreed to Arab Peace Initiative for 2 state solution and full normalization of relations between Israel and All arab states
Historical fact: Israel never responded to the Arab peace Initiative
Historical fact: Israeli leaders say they will never allow a Palestinian state

But you want some real, thought out, studied and thoroughly expressed lessons in Israeli history?

For anyone interested, listen to Israeli Historian Ilan Pappe talk about the occupation and the ethnic cleansing policies that started from before 1948





this is how Twisted your mind is; Brit declares a 2 State Solution, Jews move into their side, a War breaks out w/the Arab Countries that refuse to recognize Israel as a state & he calls this "Ethnic Cleansing" that shows how warped your mind is. What happened to "2 States" Will? "CoExistance" your favorite word, is it only relevant after they lose a War?


It's not my words man, its the words of Israeli historian Ilan Pappe. In the 1.5 hour interview above he details the ethnic cleansing process in 1948.
Take it up with him.

Shuck wrote:Some quotes from Golda Meir:
"When peace comes we will perhaps in time be able to forgive the Arabs for killing our sons, but it will be harder for us to forgive them for having forced us to kill their sons."

"Peace will come when the Arabs will love their children more than they hate us."


How heart felt by Golda, she will never forgive the arabs for killing their children. typical twisted Israeli mental gymnastics.
I wonder if these soldiers will ever forgive these guys they shot


Golda is a prime example of the twisted and sick logic of killing and blaming the victim.


So,
Israeli historians say Israel ethnically cleansed 80% the Palestinian population in 1948, to make room for the newly arrived Jews from europe.
Israel illegally occupied the West Bank and Gaza Strip in 1967
Israel illegally settles the west bank. Settlements have quadrupled since Israel signed the Oslo agreement in 1993
Israelis assassinated their PM when he signed the Oslo peace accord in 1995
Israel illegally abuses and kills Palestinian civilians - like documented by so many journalists and medical staff, all the time
Israel says it will never accept a Palestinian state, killing any prosepect of a 2 state peace solution. Present day
Shuck doesnt know what borders Israel should negotiate but wants them badly
Shuck cant get himself to condemn shooting kids in the head for fun.
And according to Golda Meir, she will never forgive the parents of that kid.

bravo Shuck
bravo Israel


Israel illegally occupied Gaza & the WBank he says :lol: .. its called fighting a War, winning & taking land for the security of your people.. have you missed history classes all of your life? this is how the world works & has since the beginning of time. maybe if you stepped out of your cumfy nest you would have a some sense of reality

still comparing a 2 State Agreement Britain proposed on land they controlled to "Ethnic Cleansing".. why don't you site the rest of those historians
since you are obssessed w/the 2 State Solution why don't you explain how that would have worked? Palestinians live on their side while Palestinians & Jews live on Israel's side? please lay out the details
& please dig deeper on this ethnic cleansing you're sticking by.. would be great if you can do this w/your own words, & not hiding behind someone else's

too fearful to actually go & visit the region that you are utterly obssessed with Will?..
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Re: Israeli Abuse

Postby willmma » Fri Jan 18, 2019 12:06 pm

Shuck wrote:Israel illegally occupied Gaza & the WBank he says :lol: .. its called fighting a War, winning & taking land for the security of your people.. have you missed history classes all of your life? this is how the world works & has since the beginning of time. maybe if you stepped out of your cumfy nest you would have a some sense of reality


I understand you find this funny and lol-worthy but in the real world might doesnt make right. The fact that Israel won a war does not earn it the land. It is clearly and explicitly illegal under international law. Resolution 242 is more specific to Israeli occupation of Palestinian territories and that Israel must withdraw its troops from land captured the 1967 war.

Legality of the Occupation
The international community considers the establishment of Israeli settlements in the Israeli-occupied territories illegal under international law, because of the Fourth Geneva Convention of 1949 which states: "The Occupying Power shall not deport or transfer parts of its own civilian population into the territory it occupies."[a][b][c][d][e] Israel maintains that it is not in violation of the Fourth Geneva Convention since, in its view, Israeli citizens were neither deported nor transferred to the territories, and they cannot be considered to have become "occupied territory" since there had been no internationally recognized legal sovereign prior.[f] The United Nations Security Council, the United Nations General Assembly, the International Committee of the Red Cross, the International Court of Justice and the High Contracting Parties to the Convention have all affirmed that the Fourth Geneva Convention does apply.[g][h]


UN 242
Operative Paragraph One "Affirms that the fulfillment of Charter principles requires the establishment of a just and lasting peace in the Middle East which should include the application of both the following principles:

(i) Withdrawal of Israeli armed forces from territories occupied in the recent conflict;
(ii) Termination of all claims or states of belligerency and respect for and acknowledgment of the sovereignty, territorial integrity and political independence of every State in the area and their right to live in peace within secure and recognized boundaries free from threats or acts of force."[4]




Shuck wrote:still comparing a 2 State Agreement Britain proposed on land they controlled to "Ethnic Cleansing".. why don't you site the rest of those historians
since you are obssessed w/the 2 State Solution why don't you explain how that would have worked? Palestinians live on their side while Palestinians & Jews live on Israel's side? please lay out the details
& please dig deeper on this ethnic cleansing you're sticking by.. would be great if you can do this w/your own words, & not hiding behind someone else's

too fearful to actually go & visit the region that you are utterly obssessed with Will?..



Illan Pappe in his interviews and books thoroughly documents the ethnic cleansing process. Documented orders to empty cities from its inhabitants. Confessions from Israeli soldiers saying they were required to remove all arab inhabitants from all their homes. The outcome of the effort no matter what you want to call it is the removal of 80% of the arab population - and worse yet - never allowing them to return. Room was made for european Jews. It's difficult to call this anything other than ethnic cleansing.

...

Now for the part that Shuck will duck

We can fuss about international law, the ethnic cleansing, the 67 war. But the truth is, the men, women, and children being killed on a regular basis in the WB and Gaza had nothing to do with any of that. It is not right that a 12 year old child gets murdered in the 2019 because his grandparents lost a war 50 years ago.

The status today is that the occupation there. People's freedom has been robbed from them by the power of the gun. We have a colonizing force in Israel that is against a 2 state solution and its politicians publicly boast that they will never end the occupation.


Israelis like to blame anybody but themselves for the occupation.

And unfortunately the Israeli abuse continues.
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Re: Israeli Abuse

Postby Shuck » Fri Jan 18, 2019 8:49 pm

willmma wrote:
Shuck wrote:Israel illegally occupied Gaza & the WBank he says :lol: .. its called fighting a War, winning & taking land for the security of your people.. have you missed history classes all of your life? this is how the world works & has since the beginning of time. maybe if you stepped out of your cumfy nest you would have a some sense of reality


I understand you find this funny and lol-worthy but in the real world might doesnt make right. The fact that Israel won a war does not earn it the land. It is clearly and explicitly illegal under international law. Resolution 242 is more specific to Israeli occupation of Palestinian territories and that Israel must withdraw its troops from land captured the 1967 war.

Legality of the Occupation
The international community considers the establishment of Israeli settlements in the Israeli-occupied territories illegal under international law, because of the Fourth Geneva Convention of 1949 which states: "The Occupying Power shall not deport or transfer parts of its own civilian population into the territory it occupies."[a][b][c][d][e] Israel maintains that it is not in violation of the Fourth Geneva Convention since, in its view, Israeli citizens were neither deported nor transferred to the territories, and they cannot be considered to have become "occupied territory" since there had been no internationally recognized legal sovereign prior.[f] The United Nations Security Council, the United Nations General Assembly, the International Committee of the Red Cross, the International Court of Justice and the High Contracting Parties to the Convention have all affirmed that the Fourth Geneva Convention does apply.[g][h]


UN 242
Operative Paragraph One "Affirms that the fulfillment of Charter principles requires the establishment of a just and lasting peace in the Middle East which should include the application of both the following principles:

(i) Withdrawal of Israeli armed forces from territories occupied in the recent conflict;
(ii) Termination of all claims or states of belligerency and respect for and acknowledgment of the sovereignty, territorial integrity and political independence of every State in the area and their right to live in peace within secure and recognized boundaries free from threats or acts of force."[4]




Shuck wrote:still comparing a 2 State Agreement Britain proposed on land they controlled to "Ethnic Cleansing".. why don't you site the rest of those historians
since you are obssessed w/the 2 State Solution why don't you explain how that would have worked? Palestinians live on their side while Palestinians & Jews live on Israel's side? please lay out the details
& please dig deeper on this ethnic cleansing you're sticking by.. would be great if you can do this w/your own words, & not hiding behind someone else's

too fearful to actually go & visit the region that you are utterly obssessed with Will?..



Illan Pappe in his interviews and books thoroughly documents the ethnic cleansing process. Documented orders to empty cities from its inhabitants. Confessions from Israeli soldiers saying they were required to remove all arab inhabitants from all their homes. The outcome of the effort no matter what you want to call it is the removal of 80% of the arab population - and worse yet - never allowing them to return. Room was made for european Jews. It's difficult to call this anything other than ethnic cleansing.

...

Now for the part that Shuck will duck

We can fuss about international law, the ethnic cleansing, the 67 war. But the truth is, the men, women, and children being killed on a regular basis in the WB and Gaza had nothing to do with any of that. It is not right that a 12 year old child gets murdered in the 2019 because his grandparents lost a war 50 years ago.

The status today is that the occupation there. People's freedom has been robbed from them by the power of the gun. We have a colonizing force in Israel that is against a 2 state solution and its politicians publicly boast that they will never end the occupation.


Israelis like to blame anybody but themselves for the occupation.

And unfortunately the Israeli abuse continues.


Didn't expect you to describe in your own words & logic on how Jews moving into their side & Palestinians having to move to their side is "Ethnic Cleansing" but that shows just how extreme & biased your views are.

Unlike you I'm not blind to reality. From the start I said "there are Monsters on both sides" that war is a very ugly thing

War happens, Countries that Win take the others land.. Life ain't pretty but thats reality, Innocent Civilians unfortunately die.


30yrs Palestinians Recognize Israel as a State you Say?

History of Palestinian Suicide Attacks in the past 30yrs:

1989 (1 attack)
Name Date Location Death toll Notes
Bus 405 suicide attack July 6, 1989 Near Kiryat Yearim 16 Carried out by Palestinian Islamic Jihad.

1990s

1993 (2 bombings)
Name Date Location Dead Injured Notes
Mehola Junction bombing April 16, 1993 Mehola junction 2 10 Hamas claimed responsibility.[5] Carried out together with Palestinian Islamic Jihad.
Beit El car bomb October 4, 1993 Near Beit El none 29 Hamas member Sulayman Zidan was responsible.[6][7]

1994 (5 bombings)
Name Date Location Dead Injured Notes
Afula Bus suicide bombing April 6, 1994 Afula 8 Hamas claimed responsibility. Carried out together with Palestinian Islamic Jihad.
Hadera bus station suicide bombing April 13, 1994 Hadera 5 Hamas claimed responsibility. Carried out together with Palestinian Islamic Jihad.
Dizengoff Street bus bombing October 19, 1994 Tel Aviv 22 Attributed to Hamas.
Netzarim Junction bicycle bombing November 11, 1994 Netzarim 3 Hamas claimed responsibility. Carried out together with Palestinian Islamic Jihad.
Jerusalem Binyanei Hauma suicide bombing December 25, 1994 Jerusalem none 13 Attributed to Hamas.

1995 (4 bombings)
Name Date Location Death toll Notes
Beit Lid massacre January 22, 1995 Beit Lid Junction 21 Two bombers. One detonated at rescue party. Palestinian Islamic Jihad claimed responsibility.
Kfar Darom bus attack April 9, 1995 Vicinity of Kfar Darom 8 Palestinian Islamic Jihad claimed responsibility.
Ramat Gan bus 20 bombing July 24, 1995 Ramat Gan 6 Hamas claimed responsibility.
Ramat Eshkol bus bombing August 21, 1995 Jerusalem 4 Police Chief Noam Eisenman was killed. Hamas claimed responsibility.

1996 (4 bombings)
Name Date Location Death toll Notes
Ashkelon bus station bombing February 25, 1996 Ashqelon 1 Hamas claimed responsibility.
First Jerusalem bus 18 suicide bombing February 25, 1996 Jerusalem Central Bus station 26 Hamas claimed responsibility.
Second Jerusalem bus 18 suicide bombing March 3, 1996 Jaffa street, Jerusalem 19 Hamas claimed responsibility.
Dizengoff Center suicide bombing March 4, 1996 Tel Aviv 13 Attributed to Hamas. Carried out together with Palestinian Islamic Jihad.

1997 (3 bombings)
Name Date Location Death toll Notes
Café Apropo bombing March 21, 1997 Tel Aviv 3 Hamas claimed responsibility.
1st Mahane Yehuda Market attack July 30, 1997 Jerusalem main market 16 Hamas claimed responsibility.
Ben Yehuda Street Bombing September 4, 1997 Jerusalem Ben Yehuda Street 5 Hamas claimed responsibility.

1998 (2 bombings)
Name Date Location Death toll Notes
1st Kfar Darom bombing October 29, 1998 Gaza Strip 1 Hamas claimed responsibility.
Jerusalem bombing November 6, 1998 Jerusalem 2 20 wounded. Two Islamic Jihad suicide bombers.[8]

1999 (2 bombings)
Name Date Location Death toll Notes
Egged bus 960 bombing September 5, 1999 Tveria none Hamas claimed responsibility.
Haifa Central Bus Station bombing September 5, 1999 Haifa none Hamas claimed responsibility.

2000s

2000 (5 bombings)
Name Date Location Dead Injured Notes
Gaza bombing October 26, 2000 Gaza Strip none 1 Youth suicide bomber on bike. Palestinian Islamic Jihad claimed responsibility.
2nd Mahane Yehuda Market attack November 2, 2000 Jerusalem 2 Booby-trapped car. Palestinian Islamic Jihad claimed responsibility.
2nd Kfar Darom bombing November 20, 2000 Gaza Strip 2 Hamas claimed responsibility.
Hadera main street bombing November 22, 2000 Hadera 2 Booby-trapped car. Hamas claimed responsibility.
Mehola bombing December 22, 2000 Mehola Junction none 3 Hamas claimed responsibility.

2001 (40 bombings)
Name Date Location Dead Injured Notes
Netanya centre bombing January 1, 2001 Netanya none 60 Hamas claimed responsibility.
Tayibe Bridge bombing January 30, 2001 Tayibe none 2 Palestinian Islamic Jihad claimed responsibility.
Beit Yisrael bombing February 8, 2001 Jerusalem none 2 Hamas claimed responsibility.
Mei Ami junction bombing March 1, 2001 Vadi Ara 1 Hamas claimed responsibility.
Netanya bombing March 4, 2001 Netanya 3 Hamas claimed responsibility.
Talpiot industrial zone bombing March 27, 2001 Jerusalem none 7 Palestinian Islamic Jihad claimed responsibility.
Egged bus 6 bombing March 27, 2001 French Hill, Jerusalem none 28 Hamas claimed responsibility.
Mifgash Shalom attack March 28, 2001 Mifgash Shalom gas station, Kfar Saba 2 Hamas claimed responsibility.
Kfar Saba bombing April 22, 2001 Kfar Saba 1 50 Hamas and Palestinian Islamic Jihad claimed responsibility.
Or Yehuda bombing April 23, 2001 Near Ben Gurion Airport none 8 Hamas claimed responsibility.
Nablus school bus bombing April 29, 2001 Nablus, West Bank none Hamas claimed responsibility.
HaSharon Mall suicide bombing May 18, 2001 HaSharon shopping mall, Netanya 5 100 Hamas claimed responsibility.
Hadera Mall bombing May 25, 2001 Hadera none Hamas claimed responsibility.
Hadera bus station suicide bombing May 25, 2001 Central bus station, Hadera none 65 2 Palestinians within a car bomb. Palestinian Islamic Jihad claimed responsibility.
Jerusalem Center bombing May 27, 2001 Jerusalem none PFLP claimed responsibility.
Jaffa Road bombing May 27, 2001 Jerusalem none 30 Palestinian Islamic Jihad claimed responsibility.
Netanya school bombing May 30, 2001 Netanya none 8 Palestinian Islamic Jihad claimed responsibility.
Dolphinarium discotheque suicide bombing June 1, 2001 Tel Aviv 21 Hamas claimed responsibility.[9]
Dugit bombing June 22, 2001 Gaza Strip 2 Booby-trapped car explosion. Hamas claimed responsibility.
Yehud suburb bombing July 2, 2001 Tel Aviv none 6 Explosion of two separate bombs. PFLP claimed responsibility.
Kissufim bombing July 9, 2001 Southern Gaza Strip crossing point none Explosion of two separate bombs. Hamas claimed responsibility.
Binyamina train station suicide bombing July 16, 2001 Binyamina 2 Hamas and Palestinian Islamic Jihad claimed responsibility.
Moshav Beka'ot bombing August 8, 2001 Northern Jordan Valley none 1 Hamas claimed responsibility.
Sbarro restaurant suicide bombing August 9, 2001 Downtown Jerusalem 15 Carried out by Hamas together with Palestinian Islamic Jihad.
Wall-Street Restaurant bombing August 12, 2001 Kiryat Motzkin none 21 Palestinian Islamic Jihad claimed responsibility.
Russian Compound bombing August 21, 2001 Downtown Jerusalem none 1 Hamas claimed responsibility.
Jerusalem car bombings September 3, 2001 Jerusalem none 3 Series of car bombs.
Hanevi'im street bombing September 4, 2001 Jerusalem none 20 Hamas claimed responsibility.
Nahariya train station suicide bombing September 9, 2001 Nahariya train station 3 Suicide bomber was an Arab Israeli citizen. Hamas claimed responsibility.
Beit Lid junction bombing September 9, 2001 Near Netanya none 17 Hamas claimed responsibility.
Talpiot neighborhood bombing October 1, 2001 Jerusalem none Hamas claimed responsibility.
1st Erez Crossing attack October 7, 2001 Erez Passage near Gaza none Hamas claimed responsibility.
Kibbutz Shluhot bombing October 7, 2001 Kibbutz Shluhot 1 Palestinian Islamic Jihad claimed responsibility.
2nd Erez Crossing attack November 26, 2001 Gaza Strip none 2 Hamas claimed responsibility.
1st Egged bus 823 bombing November 29, 2001 Wadi Ara Junction 3 Carried out by Palestinian Islamic Jihad together with Al-Aqsa Martyrs' Brigades.
Ben Yehuda Street Bombing December 1, 2001 Downtown Jerusalem 11 Hamas claimed responsibility.
Haifa bus 16 suicide bombing December 2, 2001 Haifa 15 Hamas claimed responsibility.
Hilton Mamilla bombing December 5, 2001 Mamilla, Jerusalem none 11 Carried out by Palestinian Islamic Jihad together with Hamas.
Check Post Junction bombing December 9, 2001 Check Post Junction in the direction of Tel Hanan (Haifa area) none 30 Palestinian Islamic Jihad claimed responsibility.
Neve Dekalim bombing December 12, 2001 Neve Dekalim none 4 Hamas claimed responsibility.

2002 (47 bombings)
Name Date Location Dead Injured Notes
Tel Aviv outdoor mall bombing January 25, 2002 Tel Aviv none 25 Double Suicide attack, carried out by Palestinian Islamic Jihad together with Fatah.
Jaffa Street bombing January 27, 2002 Jerusalem 1 First female suicide bomber in Al-Aqsa Intifada, Wafa Idris. Hamas claimed responsibility.
Tayibe bombing January 31, 2002 Tayibe none Hamas claimed responsibility.
Karnei Shomron Mall suicide bombing February 16, 2002 Karnei Shomron, West Bank 3 ca. 30, 6 seriously PFLP claimed responsibility.[10][11]
Maale Adumim - Jerusalem road bombing February 18, 2002 Jerusalem 1 Soldier killed by an explosive that was detonated by the driver of the car he was checking. Al-Aqsa Martyrs' Brigades claimed responsibility.
Efrat supermarket bombing attack February 22, 2002 Efrat, West Bank none 1 Suicide bomber in supermarket.
Maccabim bombing February 27, 2002 Maccabim none 3 Hamas claimed responsibility.
Yeshivat Beit Yisrael massacre March 2, 2002 Yeshiva in Jerusalem 11 Al-Aqsa Martyrs' Brigades claimed responsibility.
2nd Egged bus 823 bombing March 5, 2002 Afula 1 Palestinian Islamic Jihad claimed responsibility.[11]
Ariel hotel lobby bombing March 7, 2002 Ariel, West Bank none 15, 1 seriously PFLP claimed responsibility.[11]
Café Moment bombing March 9, 2002 Rehavia, Jerusalem 11 Hamas claimed responsibility.
Egged bus 22 bombing March 17, 2002 Jerusalem none 25 Hamas claimed responsibility.
3rd Egged bus 823 bombing March 20, 2002 Vadi Ara, Muzmuz Junction 7 Palestinian Islamic Jihad claimed responsibility.
King George Street bombing March 21, 2002 Jerusalem 3 Al-Aqsa Martyrs' Brigades claimed responsibility.
Passover massacre March 27, 2002 Netanya 30 Suicide attack on Passover seder in Park Hotel. Carried out by Hamas and Palestinian Islamic Jihad.
Kiryat HaYovel supermarket bombing March 29, 2002 Kiryat Yovel in Jerusalem 2 Hamas claimed responsibility.
Allenby Street coffee shop bombing March 30, 2002 Tel Aviv 1 Al-Aqsa Martyrs' Brigades claimed responsibility.
Baqa al-Gharbiyah bombing March 30, 2002 Baqa al-Gharbiyah 1 Booby-trapped vehicle that Palestinians tried to sneak into Israel.
Matza restaurant suicide bombing March 31, 2002 Haifa 15 Hamas claimed responsibility.
Efrat Medical Center March 31, 2002 Efrat, West Bank none 4, 1 seriously Hamas claimed responsibility.
Jerusalem Roadblock bombing April 1, 2002 Jerusalem 1 Al-Aqsa Martyrs' Brigades claimed responsibility.
Yagur Junction bombing April 10, 2002 Yagur 8 Palestinian Islamic Jihad claimed responsibility.
3rd Mahane Yehuda Market attack April 12, 2002 Jerusalem 6 Al-Aqsa Martyrs' Brigades claimed responsibility.
Rishon LeZion bombing May 7, 2002 Rishon LeZion 15 Hamas claimed responsibility.
Netanya Market bombing May 19, 2002 Netanya 3 Carried out by Hamas together with PFLP.
Afula road bombing May 20, 2002 Afula none Hamas claimed responsibility.
Rothschild Street bombing May 22, 2002 Rishon Lezion 2 Hamas claimed responsibility.
Pi Glilot bombing May 23, 2002 North of Tel Aviv none A bomb exploded underneath a fuel truck. The truck burst into flames, but the blaze was quickly contained.
Studio 49 Disco bombing May 24, 2002 Tel Aviv none 5 The security guard opened fire on a Palestinian attempting to detonate a car bomb. The Palestinian was killed, but the bomb exploded prematurely, injuring bystanders.
Petah Tikva Mall bombing May 27, 2002 Petah Tikva 2 Al-Aqsa Martyrs' Brigades claimed responsibility.
Megiddo Junction bus bombing June 5, 2002 Megiddo Junction 17 Palestinian Islamic Jihad claimed responsibility.
Herzliya shawarma restaurant bombing June 11, 2002 Herzliya 1 Hamas claimed responsibility.
Patt Junction Bus Bombing June 18, 2002 Jerusalem 19 Hamas claimed responsibility.
French Hill Junction massacre June 19, 2002 French Hill, Jerusalem 7 Al-Aqsa Martyrs' Brigades claimed responsibility.
Immanuel bus attack July 16, 2002 Emmanuel-Bnei Brak bus 189 9 Detonation of an explosive device and shooting. Hamas claimed responsibility.
Neve Shaanan Street bombing July 17, 2002 Southern Tel Aviv 5 Hamas claimed responsibility.
Nevi'im Street bombing July 30, 2002 Jerusalem none 5 Apparently the bomb exploded prematurely.
Hebrew University massacre July 31, 2002 Hebrew University, Jerusalem 9 Included American and French casualties. Bomber was from East Jerusalem. Hamas claimed responsibility.
Meron Junction Bus 361 attack August 4, 2002 Meron Junction 9 Arab bomber with Israeli citizenship. Hamas claimed responsibility.
1st Umm al-Fahm bombing August 5, 2002 Umm al-Fahm Junction in Wadi Ara none 1 The Palestinian exploded in a taxi killing himself and wounding an Israeli-Arab driver from Nazareth.
2nd Umm al-Fahm bombing September 18, 2002 Umm al-Fahm Junction in Wadi Ara 1 Palestinian Islamic Jihad claimed responsibility.
Allenby Street bus bombing September 19, 2002 bus 4, near the Great Synagogue, Tel Aviv 6 Hamas claimed responsibility.
Geha road bombing October 10, 2002 Bar-Ilan interchange, Geha road 1 Hamas claimed responsibility.
Karkur junction suicide bombing October 21, 2002 Carcur Junction 14 2 Suicide bombers used a booby-trapped jeep with 100 kg TNT. Palestinian Islamic Jihad claimed responsibility.
Sonol gas station bombing October 27, 2002 Ariel, West Bank 3 Victims killed while trying to prevent the Palestinian from detonating the bomb. Hamas claimed responsibility.
Kfar Saba shopping mall bombing November 4, 2002 Kfar Saba 2 Palestinian Islamic Jihad claimed responsibility.
Kiryat Menachem bus bombing November 21, 2002 Kiryat Menahem, Jerusalem 11 Hamas claimed responsibility.

2003 (23 bombings)
Name Date Location Dead Injured Notes
Tel-Aviv central bus station massacre January 5, 2003 Southern Tel Aviv 23 Carried out by two members of the Fatah Al-Aqsa Martyrs' Brigades, with the help of Palestinian Islamic Jihad.
Haifa bus 37 suicide bombing March 5, 2003 Carmeliya neighborhood, Haifa 17 Carried out by Hamas member and attributed to Hamas, yet never acknowledged.
London Cafe bombing March 30, 2003 Netanya none 54 Palestinian Islamic Jihad claimed responsibility.
Kfar Saba train station bombing April 24, 2003 Kfar Saba 1 13, 2 seriously PFLP claimed responsibility jointly with Al-Aqsa Martyrs' Brigades.[11][12]
Mike's Place suicide bombing April 30, 2003 Mike's Place pub, Tel Aviv 3 Carried out by Hamas using a British Muslim citizen of Pakistani descent and together with al-Aqsa Martyrs' Brigades.
Gross square attack May 17, 2003 Gross square, Hebron, West Bank 2 Hamas claimed responsibility.
Jerusalem bus 6 bombing May 18, 2003 Jerusalem 7 Hamas claimed responsibility.
3rd Kfar Darom bombing May 19, 2003 Gaza Strip none 3 A Palestinian suicide bomber riding a bicycle blew up himself next to a military jeep. Hamas claimed responsibility.
Afula mall bombing May 19, 2003 Afula shopping center 3 Hamas claimed responsibility.
Netzarim bus bombing May 22, 2003 Netzarim, Gaza Strip none 9 Hamas claimed responsibility.
Davidka Square bus bombing June 11, 2003 Downtown Jerusalem 17 Hamas claimed responsibility.
Sdei Trumot bombing June 19, 2003 Moshav Sdei Trumot 1 Palestinian Islamic Jihad claimed responsibility.
Kfar Yavetz bombing July 7, 2003 Kfar Yavetz 1 Palestinian Islamic Jihad claimed responsibility.
Ariel bus station bombing August 12, 2003 Ariel, West Bank 2 Hamas claimed responsibility.
Rosh HaAyin bombing August 12, 2003 Rosh HaAyin 1
Shmuel HaNavi bus bombing August 19, 2003 Shmuel Hanavi, Jerusalem 23 Hamas claimed responsibility.
Tzrifin bus stop attack September 9, 2003 Bus stop near Tzrifin army base 9 Hamas claimed responsibility.
Café Hillel bombing September 9, 2003 Hillel Cafe, Jerusalem 7 Hamas claimed responsibility.
Maxim restaurant suicide bombing October 4, 2003 Haifa 21 Palestinian Islamic Jihad claimed responsibility.
Tulkarem bombing October 9, 2003 Tulkarem, West Bank none 3 Hamas claimed responsibility.
Beit Hanoun Junction bombing October 15, 2003 Gaza Strip 3 The victims were part of a US diplomatic convoy.
Azzoun bombing November 3, 2003 Azzoun, West Bank none 1 Al-Aqsa Martyrs' Brigades claimed responsibility.
Geha Interchange bus stop bombing December 25, 2003 Geha Junction 4 Over 20 injured. PFLP claimed responsibility.[11][12]

2004 (17 bombings)
Name Date Location Dead Injured Notes
3rd Erez Crossing attack January 14, 2004 Gaza Strip 4 Al-Aqsa Martyrs' Brigade and Hamas claimed joint responsibility.
Gaza Street bus bombing January 29, 2004 Rehavia, Jerusalem 11 Al-Aqsa Martyrs' Brigade and Hamas claimed responsibility.
Liberty Bell Park bus bombing February 22, 2004 Liberty Bell Garden, Jerusalem 8 Al-Aqsa Martyrs' Brigade claimed responsibility.
4th Erez Crossing attack March 6, 2004 Gaza Strip 3 The victims were Palestinian policemen who died in a shooting spree and suicide car bomb attack. Two of the vehicles exploded on the Palestinian side of the crossing. Four Palestinians were killed. There were no IDF casualties. Hamas, Palestinian Islamic Jihad and the military wing of Fatah claimed responsibility.
Ashdod Port massacre March 14, 2004 Port of Ashdod 10 Double suicide bombing. Carried out by Al-Aqsa Martyrs' Brigade together with Hamas.
5th Erez Crossing attack April 17, 2004 Erez Crossing, Gaza Strip 1 Carried out by Al-Aqsa Martyrs' Brigade together with Hamas.
Deir al-Balah suicide attack April 26, 2004 Gaza Strip 2 The victims were Palestinians killed when a suicide bomber detonated himself on the way to carry out an attack in Israel.
Beka'ot checkpoint bombing May 22, 2004 Beka'ot checkpoint, Jordan Valley, West Bank none 1 PFLP claimed responsibility.[11][13]
Tel Aviv bus stop bombing July 11, 2004 Tel Aviv 1 Hamas claimed responsibility.
Kalandia checkpoint attack August 11, 2004 Kalandia, West Bank 2 The victims were Palestinian bystanders. 18 people (including six Border Policemen) were injured.
Beersheba bus bombings August 31, 2004 Downtown Beersheba on buses 7 and 12 16 Hamas claimed responsibility.
Baka al-Sharkiyeh checkpoint attack September 8, 2004 Near the Green Line border with the West Bank none Al-Aqsa Martyrs' Brigades claimed responsibility.
Kalandia Gate suicide bombing September 14, 2004 South of Kalandia, West Bank none 2 A suicide bomber riding on a bicycle blew himself up near an armored IDF jeep at an agricultural gate.
French Hill Junction bombing September 22, 2004 French Hill, Jerusalem 2 Al-Aqsa Martyrs' Brigades claimed responsibility.
Sinai bombings October 7, 2004 Sinai peninsula, Egypt 34 Suicide bombing at two Sinai holiday resorts frequented by Israeli tourists: thirty-one died at the Taba Hilton and three at Ras a-Satan. Among the dead were 12 Israelis; over 120 were wounded. The attack was masterminded by Iyad Saleh and carried out by a Palestinian group.
Carmel Market bombing November 1, 2004 Tel Aviv 3 Over 30 PFLP claimed responsibility.[11][14]
Karni Crossing attack December 7, 2004 Karni Crossing, Gaza Strip 1 An IDF soldier of the Oketz canine unit was killed by a bomb, along with his dog, when a booby-trapped chicken coup exploded northwest of the Karni Crossing. Four soldiers were wounded in the exchange of fire while evacuating him. Hamas claimed responsibility for the attack.

2005 (9 bombings)
Name Date Location Dead Injured Notes
Morag attack January 12, 2005 Morag, Southern Gaza Strip 1 One Israeli civilian was killed and three IDF soldiers wounded when a bomb was detonated against a military vehicle patrolling the route near Morag. Two Palestinians were killed by IDF forces. The area was booby-trapped with explosive devices, in addition to the bomb that exploded. Palestinian Islamic Jihad claimed responsibility.
Karni border crossing attack January 13, 2005 Karni crossing, Gaza Strip 6 Carried out together by Hamas with Fatah Al-Aqsa Martyrs' Brigades and Popular Resistance Committees.
Gush Katif checkpoint attack January 18, 2005 Gush Katif, Gaza Strip 1 Hamas claimed responsibility.
Stage Club bombing February 25, 2005 Tel Aviv sea promenade 5 Carried out together with Al-Aqsa Martyrs' Brigades and with Hizballah involvement.
1st HaSharon Mall suicide bombing July 12, 2005 Netanya 5 Palestinian Islamic Jihad claimed responsibility.
Beersheba central bus station bombing August 28, 2005 Beersheba 50, 2 critically Carried out by Palestinian Islamic Jihad together with Al-Aqsa Martyrs' Brigades.
Hadera Market bombing October 26, 2005 Hadera 7 Palestinian Islamic Jihad claimed responsibility.
2nd HaSharon Mall suicide bombing December 5, 2005 Netanya 5 Palestinian Islamic Jihad claimed responsibility.
Tulkarem roadblock bombing December 29, 2005 Near Tulkarem, West Bank 3[dubious – discuss] 10 One Israeli soldier was killed when a Palestinian en route to carry out an attack in Israel was discovered and detonated himself at a checkpoint. A second intended suicide bomber was also killed in the blast as well as the driver and a third passenger.[dubious – discuss] Three soldiers and seven Palestinians were also wounded.

2006 (3 bombings)
Name Date Location Dead Injured Notes
1st Rosh Ha'ir restaurant bombing January 19, 2006 Near Tel Aviv old central bus station none 31 Palestinian Islamic Jihad claimed responsibility.
Kedumim bombing March 30, 2006 Kdumim, West Bank 4 Al-Aqsa Martyrs' Brigades claimed responsibility.
2nd Rosh Ha'ir restaurant bombing April 17, 2006 Near Tel Aviv old central bus station 11 68 Carried out by Palestinian Islamic Jihad together with Al-Aqsa Martyrs' Brigades.

2007 (1 bombing)
Name Date Location Death toll Notes
Eilat bakery bombing January 29, 2007 Eilat 3 Palestinian Islamic Jihad and Al-Aqsa Martyrs' Brigades claim joint responsibility.

2008 (2 bombings)
Name Date Location Dead Injured Notes
Dimona bombing February 4, 2008 Dimona 1 9 The Damascus leadership of Hamas claimed responsibility,[15] but it has been argued they knew nothing of it, and that the operation was undertaken at the initiative of Hamas leaders in Gaza.[16]
Kerem Shalom suicide bombing April 19, 2008 Kerem Shalom border crossing, Gaza Strip none 13 Three Palestinian suicide bombers broke through the border fence to attack the Kerem Shalom IDF post, blowing themselves up and wounding several Israeli soldiers. Hamas claimed responsibility.

2010s

2015 (1 bombing)
Name Date Location Dead Injured Notes
Ma'ale Adumim attempted bombing October 11, 2015 Jerusalem 0 1 Palestinian female bomber detonates a bomb in her car after being stopped by traffic cops, on the road from Ma’ale Adumim to Jerusalem. [17]

2016 (1 bombing)
Name Date Location Dead Injured Notes
2016 Jerusalem bus bombing April 18, 2016 Jerusalem 0 20 A member of Hamas was involved, but Hamas, while praising the act, did not claim responsibility.


Hamas took credit for the majority of these attacks, most of which were carried out against Israeli Civilians.

Still find Hamas to be Irrelevant?
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Re: Israeli Abuse

Postby willmma » Fri Jan 18, 2019 10:25 pm

Shuck wrote:
willmma wrote:Now for the part that Shuck will duck

We can fuss about international law, the ethnic cleansing, the 67 war. But the truth is, the men, women, and children being killed on a regular basis in the WB and Gaza had nothing to do with any of that. It is not right that a 12 year old child gets murdered in the 2019 because his grandparents lost a war 50 years ago.

The status today is that the occupation there. People's freedom has been robbed from them by the power of the gun. We have a colonizing force in Israel that is against a 2 state solution and its politicians publicly boast that they will never end the occupation.


Israelis like to blame anybody but themselves for the occupation.

And unfortunately the Israeli abuse continues.


Didn't expect you to describe in your own words & logic on how Jews moving into their side & Palestinians having to move to their side is "Ethnic Cleansing" but that shows just how extreme & biased your views are.



So I am biased because I am referencing an Israeli historian? Very strange.

Here is another video of Ilan, a bit shorter but with actual quotes.


Norman Finkelstien here explains that ethnic cleansing was in-built in the zionist idea.

How biased of me to use Jewish sources, right?


Shuck wrote:Unlike you I'm not blind to reality. From the start I said "there are Monsters on both sides" that war is a very ugly thing

War happens, Countries that Win take the others land.. Life ain't pretty but thats reality, Innocent Civilians unfortunately die.


I know you cant believe it. And I know you think Israel should continue to occupy the palestinians forever because of the factors and circumstances: 67 war and the Holocaust.

But that's your point of view and it is wrong. It is ethically wrong. it is morally wrong. It is legally wrong. I showed you how international law says YOU CANNOT occupy other peoples lands even if you won them in a war. And I showed you UN resolution 242 specifically says Israel must leave lands it conquered in the 67 war.

The 67 war is not a valid argument. Find another one Shucky.

Shuck wrote:
30yrs Palestinians Recognize Israel as a State you Say?


Yes, that's a historical fact. I showed you the videos of past and present Palestinian presidents declaring so. And you didnt handle it well.

Shuck wrote:
Hamas took credit for the majority of these attacks, most of which were carried out against Israeli Civilians.

Still find Hamas to be Irrelevant?


First, I truly condemn these attacks and all attacks on civilians.

But to answer you, Hamas is irrelevant.

You keep circling back and I have to keep explaining to you.
So I will repeat, maybe one day you will begin to understand

Israel is the one with the really big army.
Israel is the one that violently and illegally occupies Palestinian land. There is no Palestinian forces occupying Israeli villages
Israel is the one that shoots and kills Palestinian men women children on a weekly basis
Israel is the one that says it will never accept a 2 state solution

Until Israel withdraws from the west bank and acknowledges Palestinians right to exist on their homeland then Israel is the ONLY obstacle.
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Re: Israeli Abuse

Postby PainDog » Sat Jan 19, 2019 1:24 am

The British had control of Palestine due to colonial occupation.

If the holocaust was a catastrophe for the Jewish people English and French occupation was a catastrophe for most people living in Asia and Africa. The English killed more people in India alone than the Germans killed Jews in the holocaust.
https://yourstory.com/2014/08/bengal-famine-genocide/

The English had also been placing people in concentration camps, including other European people such as Afrikaners since at least the1800s.
https://www.sahistory.org.za/topic/wome ... -1900-1902

I would hardly call their control of any occupied nation legitimate. Colonial propositions such as the 1947 two state proposal in Palestine, or what was even worse for the Middle East the Sykes–Picot Agreement were made for the benefits of people in Europe, not for the people actually living in the region.

They had no more rights to divide the Arab nations as they willed than Europeans had the right to cut up and give away parts of the Americas while ignoring the rights and livelihood of the indigenous people.

But like you said the Native people of the Americas lost wars, and therefore whatever happened to them is perfectly justified since, “life isn’t fair”.

Really that logic could be applied to so many circumstances. White South Africans should not have ended apartheid since the blacks lost wars, and life isn’t fair anyways. Turks and Iranians should continue to annihilate the Kurdish people since they’ve lost wars and life isn’t fair.

The only justifications I have seen for Israelis right to the land are invasion and war, mythology, and the claim that historically it was the homeland of the ancient Jewish people.
I am not going to dispute that many of the Jews in the Jewish diaspora, perhaps even the majority, had roots to the ancient levant. Even if we look at the different Jewish groups it is often impossible to simply just identify a Mizhrahi Jew like Jerry Seinfield from an Ashkenazi Jews like Adam Sandler.

However, that ancient connection isn’t enough of a justification. It would be the as if the English decided to go and occupy Germany, since the English language and perhaps most of modern English people have roots in Germany and Germanic people like the Anglo-Saxons.

Honestly speaking I don’t understand how a two-state solution would work. Gaza and the West Bank would become a nation? A nation that would lack the resources to even support itself. As soon as the Palestinian nation would exist it would immediately become dependent on Israel for its survival. The situation likely wouldn’t be any more favorable than the current circumstances.
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Re: Israeli Abuse

Postby willmma » Sat Jan 19, 2019 11:40 am

PainDog wrote:The British had control of Palestine due to colonial occupation.

If the holocaust was a catastrophe for the Jewish people English and French occupation was a catastrophe for most people living in Asia and Africa. The English killed more people in India alone than the Germans killed Jews in the holocaust.
https://yourstory.com/2014/08/bengal-famine-genocide/

The English had also been placing people in concentration camps, including other European people such as Afrikaners since at least the1800s.
https://www.sahistory.org.za/topic/wome ... -1900-1902

I would hardly call their control of any occupied nation legitimate. Colonial propositions such as the 1947 two state proposal in Palestine, or what was even worse for the Middle East the Sykes–Picot Agreement were made for the benefits of people in Europe, not for the people actually living in the region.

They had no more rights to divide the Arab nations as they willed than Europeans had the right to cut up and give away parts of the Americas while ignoring the rights and livelihood of the indigenous people.

But like you said the Native people of the Americas lost wars, and therefore whatever happened to them is perfectly justified since, “life isn’t fair”.

Really that logic could be applied to so many circumstances. White South Africans should not have ended apartheid since the blacks lost wars, and life isn’t fair anyways. Turks and Iranians should continue to annihilate the Kurdish people since they’ve lost wars and life isn’t fair.

The only justifications I have seen for Israelis right to the land are invasion and war, mythology, and the claim that historically it was the homeland of the ancient Jewish people.
I am not going to dispute that many of the Jews in the Jewish diaspora, perhaps even the majority, had roots to the ancient levant. Even if we look at the different Jewish groups it is often impossible to simply just identify a Mizhrahi Jew like Jerry Seinfield from an Ashkenazi Jews like Adam Sandler.

However, that ancient connection isn’t enough of a justification. It would be the as if the English decided to go and occupy Germany, since the English language and perhaps most of modern English people have roots in Germany and Germanic people like the Anglo-Saxons.

Honestly speaking I don’t understand how a two-state solution would work. Gaza and the West Bank would become a nation? A nation that would lack the resources to even support itself. As soon as the Palestinian nation would exist it would immediately become dependent on Israel for its survival. The situation likely wouldn’t be any more favorable than the current circumstances.



Well said PD. but i have to disagree with the last part. If having peace means Israeli soldiers no longer line up on the Gaza border shooting inside at protester and no longer roam the streets of the west bank beating up people, shooting people, setting up checkpoints, confiscating Palestinian land to build Jewish settlements. If all ends then it would be a better situation for the Palestinians.

You are right Financially they would be as bad as Jordan, maybe even worse.
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Re: Israeli Abuse

Postby PainDog » Sat Jan 19, 2019 11:58 am

willmma wrote:Well said PD. but i have to disagree with the last part. If having peace means Israeli soldiers no longer line up on the Gaza border shooting inside at protester and no longer roam the streets of the west bank beating up people, shooting people, setting up checkpoints, confiscating Palestinian land to build Jewish settlements. If all ends then it would be a better situation for the Palestinians.

You are right Financially they would be as bad as Jordan, maybe even worse.


I agree with you.

Definitely a two state solution is better than the current situation.
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Re: Israeli Abuse

Postby Shuck » Sat Jan 19, 2019 7:00 pm

willmma wrote:
Shuck wrote:
willmma wrote:Now for the part that Shuck will duck

We can fuss about international law, the ethnic cleansing, the 67 war. But the truth is, the men, women, and children being killed on a regular basis in the WB and Gaza had nothing to do with any of that. It is not right that a 12 year old child gets murdered in the 2019 because his grandparents lost a war 50 years ago.

The status today is that the occupation there. People's freedom has been robbed from them by the power of the gun. We have a colonizing force in Israel that is against a 2 state solution and its politicians publicly boast that they will never end the occupation.


Israelis like to blame anybody but themselves for the occupation.

And unfortunately the Israeli abuse continues.


Didn't expect you to describe in your own words & logic on how Jews moving into their side & Palestinians having to move to their side is "Ethnic Cleansing" but that shows just how extreme & biased your views are.



So I am biased because I am referencing an Israeli historian? Very strange.

Here is another video of Ilan, a bit shorter but with actual quotes.


Norman Finkelstien here explains that ethnic cleansing was in-built in the zionist idea.

How biased of me to use Jewish sources, right?


Shuck wrote:Unlike you I'm not blind to reality. From the start I said "there are Monsters on both sides" that war is a very ugly thing

War happens, Countries that Win take the others land.. Life ain't pretty but thats reality, Innocent Civilians unfortunately die.


I know you cant believe it. And I know you think Israel should continue to occupy the palestinians forever because of the factors and circumstances: 67 war and the Holocaust.

But that's your point of view and it is wrong. It is ethically wrong. it is morally wrong. It is legally wrong. I showed you how international law says YOU CANNOT occupy other peoples lands even if you won them in a war. And I showed you UN resolution 242 specifically says Israel must leave lands it conquered in the 67 war.

The 67 war is not a valid argument. Find another one Shucky.

Shuck wrote:
30yrs Palestinians Recognize Israel as a State you Say?


Yes, that's a historical fact. I showed you the videos of past and present Palestinian presidents declaring so. And you didnt handle it well.

Shuck wrote:
Hamas took credit for the majority of these attacks, most of which were carried out against Israeli Civilians.

Still find Hamas to be Irrelevant?


First, I truly condemn these attacks and all attacks on civilians.

But to answer you, Hamas is irrelevant.

You keep circling back and I have to keep explaining to you.
So I will repeat, maybe one day you will begin to understand

Israel is the one with the really big army.
Israel is the one that violently and illegally occupies Palestinian land. There is no Palestinian forces occupying Israeli villages
Israel is the one that shoots and kills Palestinian men women children on a weekly basis
Israel is the one that says it will never accept a 2 state solution

Until Israel withdraws from the west bank and acknowledges Palestinians right to exist on their homeland then Israel is the ONLY obstacle.


The list of terrorist bombings over the last 30yrs should show you how little the words mean behind what the PA says or whoever else came out & claimed to recognize Israel as a state over the last 30yrs. Their Coy words mean nothing to Israelis, its their actions that speak.

Hamas never did recognize Israel as a State, Hamas is the "Strong Military", Hamas is the one's behind the majority of these attacks, nearly all of which are against civilians.. Yet you think this is Irrelevant, that Israel can just make believe & hope that all will be well soon as they give into their demands.. Israel knows very well who they are dealing with, the hate on both sides is embeded into their genes, playing make believe & hoping all will turn out well is not something they have the luxury of doing.

Since you seem so set on taking the PA's word, here is a clip of a former Hamas member & son of their Leader.. & his thoughts on the PA, you will enjoy the beginning, the end probably not so much.
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