Shogun Vs. Jones revisited

[Ronin]

Les not forget Jones slapping the shit out of Shogun after the failed Leg locked

[Masterino]

Ok, I found out some valuable info so we can just let this thread rest in peace, here goes...

I revisited the Shogun/Jones fight, and what I have discovered is the following...

-Shogun STILL gets his ass whipped harder than he ever has before by a 23 year old kid
-Shogun is tapping the mat at the same instance that the ref is mercifully stopping Jones from literally killing him
-Shogun loses his title without even defending it

In conclusion,

After reviewing the tapes, nothing has changed. On to the next topic.

This. Ok, lets MOVE ON PPL!!

[BestWayKilla]

Ok, I found out some valuable info so we can just let this thread rest in peace, here goes...

I revisited the Shogun/Jones fight, and what I have discovered is the following...

-Shogun STILL gets his ass whipped harder than he ever has before by a 23 year old kid
-Shogun is tapping the mat at the same instance that the ref is mercifully stopping Jones from literally killing him
-Shogun loses his title without even defending it

In conclusion,

After reviewing the tapes, nothing has changed. On to the next topic.

What, did you think he was insinuating there was gonna be a different ending? Seriously, think before you post. It's not what played out but how it's viewed with newfound context. And no, Jones wasn't going to kill Shogun. Beating him something fierce, yes, and it was rightfully stopped, but really now? It was a dominant stoppage victory, don't act like the stoppage preserved a few years of his life or something. The ways people can hyerbolize about this guy, I swear.

[Roadkill66]

Ok, I found out some valuable info so we can just let this thread rest in peace, here goes...

I revisited the Shogun/Jones fight, and what I have discovered is the following...

-Shogun STILL gets his ass whipped harder than he ever has before by a 23 year old kid
-Shogun is tapping the mat at the same instance that the ref is mercifully stopping Jones from literally killing him
-Shogun loses his title without even defending it

In conclusion,

After reviewing the tapes, nothing has changed. On to the next topic.

What, did you think he was insinuating there was gonna be a different ending? Seriously, think before you post. It's not what played out but how it's viewed with newfound context. And no, Jones wasn't going to kill Shogun. Beating him something fierce, yes, and it was rightfully stopped, but really now? It was a dominant stoppage victory, don't act like the stoppage preserved a few years of his life or something. The ways people can hyerbolize about this guy, I swear.

Holy shit dude they made you a mod?

Anyway, i obviously didn't mean that stuff literally, but this thread is about as useful as someone bringing up Forrest Griffin vs Anderson Silva and attempting to theorize that a rematch might go differently....I mean, c'mon.

[viaKO]

The3rdEye =Jon Jones of MMA linker. You totally owned everyone by yourself.

[BestWayKilla]

Ok, I found out some valuable info so we can just let this thread rest in peace, here goes...

I revisited the Shogun/Jones fight, and what I have discovered is the following...

-Shogun STILL gets his ass whipped harder than he ever has before by a 23 year old kid
-Shogun is tapping the mat at the same instance that the ref is mercifully stopping Jones from literally killing him
-Shogun loses his title without even defending it

In conclusion,

After reviewing the tapes, nothing has changed. On to the next topic.

What, did you think he was insinuating there was gonna be a different ending? Seriously, think before you post. It's not what played out but how it's viewed with newfound context. And no, Jones wasn't going to kill Shogun. Beating him something fierce, yes, and it was rightfully stopped, but really now? It was a dominant stoppage victory, don't act like the stoppage preserved a few years of his life or something. The ways people can hyerbolize about this guy, I swear.

Holy shit dude they made you a mod?

Anyway, i obviously didn't mean that stuff literally, but this thread is about as useful as someone bringing up Forrest Griffin vs Anderson Silva and attempting to theorize that a rematch might go differently....I mean, c'mon.

Yes, I have been elevated. Been away from Linker a while?

[Roadkill66]

Yes, I have been elevated. Been away from Linker a while?

Nah not really.

[rattlestick]

this thread is about as useful as someone bringing up Forrest Griffin vs Anderson Silva and attempting to theorize that a rematch might go differently....I mean, c'mon.

It's good that you rewatched the fight. Now i suggest you re-read my post, because you've obviously missed the point.

[rattlestick]

Well... that's the difference between someone that's got a good read on how a fight would go down and someone who doesn't. Some people need to see Jones fight more to have a better grasp on how he'd do against fighters A,B, and C. I only need to see one or two key fights to know.

I don't really care about how Sonnen took Silva down... or even how Lutter did it. I look at Hendo. I look at how he got the body lock and took him down and pounded on his head for the remainder of the first round. I look at the second round- and even though he wasn't able to take Silva down again- I'm more interested in the fact that he body locked him again and held him due to fatigue, tried to take him down, and released the hold... rather than Silva escaping it. I know that Hendo was gassing and was no longer able to use his wrestling effectively so no big deal.

Then I look at Randy Couture coming off of losses against Brock and Big Nog.... still a dangerous fighter.... up against Brandon Vera, who himself has a decade of Greco wrestling background and is a former heavyweight himself. Couture was only able to momentarily take him down once in the first round and was forced to hold him against the cage for most of the fight.

Jones took Vera down like nothing and made Couture's effort look like....I don't know what. Jones can shoot doubles and Jones can take you down from the clinch. Although he didn't try to take Rashad down, he made every other wrestler look bad....really bad.

I don't need to see Jones face off against 10 more bjj blackbelts to have a sense of how good and knowledgable he would be at effectively breaking down Anderson Silva's jiu jitsu game.

I can see he was taught well for the fight with Shogun and that everything was planned and executed to perfection on the ground. He wasn't sloppy and going 90mph like Sonnen, nor did he rush the way Lesnar rushed to pass Cain's guard allowing him to scramble to his feet. Jones took his time and was very methodical as to how he was maintaining his position/ controlling shogun's position, and unleashing his attacks.

Now do you see why Jones>>>>>>>>>silva? No, I don't think you do. That's why I'm up here and you're down there. I have a pretty solid read on this outcome. That Jones would be able to take Silva down with ease(shooting or from clinch), and that Silva would get smashed badly on the ground with little hope for miraculously manuevering out of Jones' dominant wrestling abilities and understanding of submission defense.

this is a good post. but you have to remember that jones still has to stand with silva first, every time he can get back to his feet and at the beginning of every round

That's not what is important. Even wrestling matches begin on the feet (unless it begins in the referees' position). Couture vs. Toney began on the feet. In the most extreme examples, we can imagine some of the world's greatest strikers like Floyd Mayweather or Buakaw inside the octogon against an average mma fighter and predict with great accuracy that the fights will end with the MMA fighter on top winning by tko or submission.

The real question is: How good will Silva's takedown defense be when he moves up to the LHW division to face Jon Jones?

The next thing you must understand is that Jon Jones HAS THE BEST TAKEDOWN ACCURACY IN DIVISION HISTORY. More importantly is that many of his opponents that he has taken to the ground are against some of the best wrestlers in the division- who have superb takedown defense themselves. Please consider this article:

"Jones comes from a strong Greco-Roman wrestling background and his skills have translated very well to MMA. His takedown accuracy of 63.6% is the very best in light heavyweight history. He’s already scored 21 takedowns, 4th most in division history, and his 3.32 takedowns per 15 minutes average is the 4th highest in division. Aside from winning takedown battles, Jones shows great control on the ground, spending only 12 seconds in the UFC on his back."
http://sports.yahoo.com/mma/news?slug=mmaweekly-3f89dd279918f6a8835e57dd655d30d2


Now, I'm not saying Anderson's tdd is absolutely horrible. In fact, one can make an argument that it is good for his middleweight division (which is filled with mostly strikers and some jiu jitsu guys).

But for him to step up to LHW and face someone like Jon Jones is a whole 'nother level. Anyone who thinks that Silva can keep the fight standing to his advantage against Jones has some SERIOUS issues with their perception. Anyone who thinks Silva has the advantage in the clinch has SERIOUS issues with their understanding of Muay Thai vs. Greco.

And since we all heard Rogan say that bjj black belts turn into white belts when they're getting punched in the face, anyone who believes- with Jones' superior wrestling and understanding of submission defense- that he cannot completely dominate Silva on the ground while avoiding submissions with even a basic understanding of how to defend is crazy.

There is no question that Jones>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>silva. Jones would take him down at will and maul him easily.

Dude, i like the way you reason.

I agree, I think Jones would probably win. On the other hand, Silva is arguably the best striker Jones will have faced. He's unpredictable, diversified and has a very long reach which makes it all the more interesting. Even though i give Jones better odds to win i think it would be foolish to underestimate Silva. He could very well beat Jones.