Duckers = Winners (Proof inside)

[50calReaper]

See, that's where you prove me right and prove yourself wrong. I said earlier "Stop acting like AA and Sylvia were the only ones he could fight" I've listed so many more fighters than those two and shown how the competition he opted to fight instead of going to the UFC is inferior. Your skills in the art of debating are lacking.

I mean, after what I just said to you, this is the only thing you can muster up? Some wannabe trolling reply with a sign that hardly has any context within our conversation?

IrishMike: "Oh crap I'm wrong, I must create some sort of tactic to undermine his logic"

^Watch, you're going to copy what I just did

Oh really? I proved you right? LMAO. Stop acting like Choi and Lindland are the only guys he fought after Pride. He fought FIVE top ten HWs in a row. He should have turned that down to fight Vera, Mir and some unproven prospects?

Anderson Silva ducked Cage Rage because Evangelista Santos wanted to fight for his title

Brett was not Top 10 and Werdum was only 8 and if I'm not mistaken, Bigfoot was at 9. Besides the fact that (I can't believe I'm saying this again), by the time Fedor fought Werdum, it was 2010, Brock was the champion, Mir had improved leaps and bounds, Carwin was a major contender and ass kicker, and Cain was even more of a contender and NOT an "unproven prospect" as you would like to contend. I mean, he had just put out Nogueira, something Fedor was never able to do, yet you're going to call him an unproven prospect and claim all of these fighters are inferior to AA, Sylvia, Brett Rogers, and Bigfoot? The guy that just got raped by Cain? Werdum was a good fight (as far as not ducking) but not only did he lose that fight, but that STILL doesn't negate the fact that there is a huge roster of HWs Fedor ducked in order to fight guys like Rogers, and Bigfoot. Five Top HWs my ass...he never even fought Overeem either...

And now we finally get to see YOUR argument rather than just feebly attacking mine. Evangalista Santos? That guy doesn't even deserved to be spoken in the same breath as Anderson. He's 18-15! During Anderson's reign in Cage Rage and by the time Santos got up to title contention, he was 12-7 over relative no names, having been stopped by Yuki "FUCKING" Kondo. And Anderson ducked him? I'm sure going to the UFC had nothing to do with the fact that he wanted to get paid more and take on better competition than Jorge Rivera and Lee Murray. See this is where you're confused, Anderson actually took a step up towards competition, unlike Fedor. You're getting the two guys mixed up silly. Besides all of that...Santos is, and was a LHW

Hell, if Anderson would have ended up fighting Santos anyway, you'd be using that win as a way to discredit Anderson, but now because that didn't happen (for multiple reasons...), you're using it as a way to discredit Anderson. You a funny guy.

[irishmike357]

And Anderson ducked him? I'm sure going to the UFC had nothing to do with the fact that he wanted to get paid more and take on better competition than Jorge Rivera and Lee Murray.

Funny how that works for Anderson but not for Fedor lmao. Fedor "ducked" the UFC so he could fight top ten competitors instead of Vera and Brock Lesnar.

[50calReaper]

And Anderson ducked him? I'm sure going to the UFC had nothing to do with the fact that he wanted to get paid more and take on better competition than Jorge Rivera and Lee Murray.

Funny how that works for Anderson but not for Fedor lmao. Fedor "ducked" the UFC so he could fight top ten competitors instead of Vera and Brock Lesnar.

Funny how you leave out the fact that Lesnar was unanimously the #1 HW at the time of his championship reign, and the rest of my argument and choose to respond to this one part with a comment that has already been addressed in paragraphs above it. I will now copy and paste that here to remind you.

Brett was not Top 10 and Werdum was only 8 and if I'm not mistaken, Bigfoot was at 9. Besides the fact that (I can't believe I'm saying this again), by the time Fedor fought Werdum, it was 2010, Brock was the champion, Mir had improved leaps and bounds, Carwin was a major contender and ass kicker, and Cain was even more of a contender and NOT an "unproven prospect" as you would like to contend. I mean, he had just put out Nogueira, something Fedor was never able to do, yet you're going to call him an unproven prospect and claim all of these fighters are inferior to AA, Sylvia, Brett Rogers, and Bigfoot? The guy that just got raped by Cain? Werdum was a good fight (as far as not ducking) but not only did he lose that fight, but that STILL doesn't negate the fact that there is a huge roster of HWs Fedor ducked in order to fight guys like Rogers, and Bigfoot. Five Top HWs my ass...he never even fought Overeem either...

So basically...THERE WERE A LOT MORE TOP TEN COMPETITORS IN THE HW DIVISION BESIDES THE FEW IN SF. Stop acting like SF had the only Top HWs. SF was just getting started during the fall of Pride anyway. They didn't have a decent roster for a couple of years. Once again...the UFC had the best HW division immediately following the fall of Pride.

[irishmike357]

So basically...THERE WERE A LOT MORE TOP TEN COMPETITORS IN THE HW DIVISION BESIDES THE FEW IN SF. Stop acting like SF had the only Top HWs. SF was just getting started during the fall of Pride anyway. They didn't have a decent roster for a couple of years. Once again...the UFC had the best HW division immediately following the fall of Pride.

No shit there were more top ten fighters out there, you are saying Fedor ducked those top ten fighters to fight other top ten; which is a retarded argument lol.


Psst. SF has been around since 1985. I said when Fedor went to SF they had an equal HW division to UFC; I said Affliction had a better HW division, which it did.

[50calReaper]

So basically...THERE WERE A LOT MORE TOP TEN COMPETITORS IN THE HW DIVISION BESIDES THE FEW IN SF. Stop acting like SF had the only Top HWs. SF was just getting started during the fall of Pride anyway. They didn't have a decent roster for a couple of years. Once again...the UFC had the best HW division immediately following the fall of Pride.

No shit there were more top ten fighters out there, you are saying Fedor ducked those top ten fighters to fight other top ten; which is a retarded argument lol.


Psst. SF has been around since 1985. I said when Fedor went to SF they had an equal HW division to UFC; I said Affliction had a better HW division, which it did.

lol SF was kickboxing all the way until 2006 buddy. And I have disagreed with the supremacy of SFs fighters. But no, that's not what I'm saying, that's what you're saying that I'm saying. It's silly that you think all Top HWs are created equal. It's obvious that the UFC's HW will beat the majority of SF's HWs, but according to your logic, all the fights would turn out to be draws. The UFC's HW roster has been above SF's for quite a while and ESPECIALLY when Fedor went to SF. The division was not equal. Rogers, Werdum, and Bigfoot =/= Carwin, JDS, and Cain. (Carwin and Rogers are almost mirror images of each other with Carwin being superior, JDS punched Werdum's face off, Cain raped Bigfoot).

There's nothing retarded about what I'm saying. Fedor's a ducking machine.

[irishmike357]

lol SF was kickboxing all the way until 2006 buddy. And I have disagreed with the supremacy of SFs fighters. But no, that's not what I'm saying, that's what you're saying that I'm saying. It's silly that you think all Top HWs are created equal. It's obvious that the UFC's HW will beat the majority of SF's HWs, but according to your logic, all the fights would turn out to be draws. The UFC's HW roster has been above SF's for quite a while and ESPECIALLY when Fedor went to SF. The division was not equal. Rogers, Werdum, and Bigfoot =/= Carwin, JDS, and Cain. (Carwin and Rogers are almost mirror images of each other with Carwin being superior, JDS punched Werdum's face off, Cain raped Bigfoot).

There's nothing retarded about what I'm saying. Fedor's a ducking machine.

Today that is true, not when Fedor chose to go to SF when the UFC Champion was lying on his death bed in Minnesota.


Let me show you want the HW picture was when Pride fell ok. This might really help (not being a dick here).

You think he ducked the UFC when Pride fell first and foremost.
When Pride fell...


Cain had just fought Jeremiah Constant in Bodog and was 2-0.

JDS was getting subbed by Joaquim Ferreira in MTL.

Couture has announced his resignation from UFC (he actually wanted to go fight Fedor, wish that fight happened).

Frank Mir was 2-2 since his motorcycle accident.

Big Nog, CroCop and Coleman had all jumped over to the UFC, Mark went to LHW.

AA was about to fight his last UFC fight against Jake O'Brien and was 9-2 in his last 11 (2 loses to Sylvia).

Sylvia was 24-3 just lost his title to Couture and was beating on Vera.

The rest of the UFC HW division was garbage consisting of fighters like Wes Sims and Brandon Vera who should not even be talked about. The top UFC fighters were Sylvia, AA, Couture, Nog and CC. Fedor already beat two of them and shortly after this would beat another two. The other one Couture was not in the UFC anymore. So which top fighter did he duck here?

Fedor was working on a deal with the UFC, during which time he took two fights against cans. Just staying busy while working on a contract, he didn't sign a long term deal with anyone cause he wanted to work something out with the UFC. Because there were no other legit HW divisions at the time.

Then in early 2008 Affliction was formed. Fedor decided to go there because they had a HW roster consisting of Sylvia and AA (the UFCs top HWs other than Couture at the time of the buyout). They also signed Barnett, the best Pride HW Fedor didn't fight.

At that time the UFC HW roster consisted of

Brock Lesnar who was just subbed by Frank Mir.

Frank Mir who was now 3-2 (after his accident) with his biggest win being over a 1-0 Brock Lesnar.

Brandon Vera who has had just lost Sylvia (now with Affliction)

Werdum who was 10-3 and just beat Gonzaga.

CroCop, Big Nog still there.

Gonzaga who had lost 2 in a row and was about to fight Justin McCully

Couture STILL not back in the UFC at this time.

So who in this group was Fedor ducking? Werdum was one of the top fighters, Fedor fought him. Nog and CC had already been beaten by Fedor. Vera was moving to LHW.



My point is the best fighters the UFC had at each of these time frames Fedor had either already beaten or would shortly after fight.

[50calReaper]

lol SF was kickboxing all the way until 2006 buddy. And I have disagreed with the supremacy of SFs fighters. But no, that's not what I'm saying, that's what you're saying that I'm saying. It's silly that you think all Top HWs are created equal. It's obvious that the UFC's HW will beat the majority of SF's HWs, but according to your logic, all the fights would turn out to be draws. The UFC's HW roster has been above SF's for quite a while and ESPECIALLY when Fedor went to SF. The division was not equal. Rogers, Werdum, and Bigfoot =/= Carwin, JDS, and Cain. (Carwin and Rogers are almost mirror images of each other with Carwin being superior, JDS punched Werdum's face off, Cain raped Bigfoot).

There's nothing retarded about what I'm saying. Fedor's a ducking machine.

Before I directly reply to anything...the revisionist history you are using here is disgusting. You are literally, picking all of these fighters in the very worst moments of their careers and acting like that's exactly what was happening at the exact time Pride fell out (and I will highlight every time you do this). It's disgusting. Plus you're ignoring everything else I said about how...if Fedor would have went over to UFC he would have fought guys like Mir, Couture, and Gonzaga and then LATER on fought Cain and JDS instead of Rogers and Werdum. But you're ignoring me...

Today that is true, not when Fedor chose to go to SF when the UFC Champion was lying on his death bed in Minnesota.

Maybe, but all the other contenders were doing just fine. He would have most likely had to have fought a contender before Brock ANYWAY. One fighter being sick isn't an excuse.


Let me show you want the HW picture was when Pride fell ok. This might really help (not being a dick here).

You think he ducked the UFC when Pride fell first and foremost.
When Pride fell...


Cain had just fought Jeremiah Constant in Bodog and was 2-0.

Once again, I wasn't suggesting he fight Cain right away...

JDS was getting subbed by Joaquim Ferreira in MTL.

Same thing applies...but JDS had 4 fights in 2007, and THAT'S the one you choose to highlights? Nice. This shows exactly the way you're swaying everything here. Try to make it look as bad as possible.

Couture has announced his resignation from UFC (he actually wanted to go fight Fedor, wish that fight happened).

Once again, he fought every damn year of his career and never fought any where else but the UFC. No excuses.

Frank Mir was 2-2 since his motorcycle accident.

Yeah but he was 10-3 overall. Stop revising things to fit your views. He held a win over Tim Sylvia as well whom you claim to be superior competition

Big Nog, CroCop and Coleman had all jumped over to the UFC, Mark went to LHW.

AA was about to fight his last UFC fight against Jake O'Brien and was 9-2 in his last 11 (2 loses to Sylvia).

Once again, more bullcrap swaying and revision. AA's last UFC fight was in 2008, so that does not count as immediately after the fall of Pride, sorry but that's over one year which gave Fedor plenty of time to fight AA in the UFC.

Sylvia was 24-3 just lost his title to Couture and was beating on Vera.

Want to see how easy it is to revise things to fit my views?

Sylvia was 2-2 in his last few fights and had just lost his title, coming into the Fedor fight with a loss, to a man Fedor had already beaten

The rest of the UFC HW division was garbage consisting of fighters like Wes Sims and Brandon Vera who should not even be talked about. The top UFC fighters were Sylvia, AA, Couture, Nog and CC. Fedor already beat two of them and shortly after this would beat another two. The other one Couture was not in the UFC anymore. So which top fighter did he duck here?

Ok, so what was wrong with Gonzaga? What was wrong with Vera? Fedor opted to fight Lindland and Choi instead of go in and fight these two guys, at the very least (because you know, these are the lesser Top HWs of that time)? Especially when he had already fought guys like Goodridge and Yuji Nagata, who are obviously lesser to Vera and Gonzaga. The offering of competition immediately following the collapse of Pride was a lot better than outside of the UFC. Say what you will about these guys, but they were the best to offer.

Fedor was working on a deal with the UFC, during which time he took two fights against cans. Just staying busy while working on a contract, he didn't sign a long term deal with anyone cause he wanted to work something out with the UFC. Because there were no other legit HW divisions at the time.

This is a completely baseless claim. Do you have anything to back it up? You have nothing proving this. From the time he had his last fight in Pride, until the time he fought Choi, a year had passed. How long could it possibly take to sign a guy into your company? 1 year is out of the question...

Then in early 2008 Affliction was formed. Fedor decided to go there because they had a HW roster consisting of Sylvia and AA (the UFCs top HWs other than Couture at the time of the buyout). They also signed Barnett, the best Pride HW Fedor didn't fight.

As I previously stated, he had plenty of time to go to the UFC and fight AA. Immediately after the fall of Pride, AA was still inside the UFC kicking ass. So that leaves what, Sylvia and Barnett? That's it? He should wait to go to Affliction because of two HW competitors? One of which was coming off of a loss to a UFC competitor?

At that time the UFC HW roster consisted of

Brock Lesnar who was just subbed by Frank Mir.

Once again...I wasn't suggesting immediately fighting Lesnar

Frank Mir who was now 3-2 (after his accident) with his biggest win being over a 1-0 Brock Lesnar.

11-3 dude, no more revising!

Brandon Vera who has had just lost Sylvia (now with Affliction)

Brandon Vera lost to Sylvia in 2007, Fedor left Pride in 2006. When Fedor left Pride, Vera was 8-0, and a more legitimate 8-0 than Wagner Martin. Yet you're going to discredit Vera's legitimacy? Well then you must do the same for Zulu whom Fedor fought in Pride in the prime of his career. That or not do it at all.

Werdum who was 10-3 and just beat Gonzaga.

This is bad?

CroCop, Big Nog still there.

I see the point with Big Nog, but what was wrong with a Cro Cop rematch anyway? Not to say he was ducking Cro Cop (maybe he was, he got rocked hard) but why would the fact Cro Cop was in the league sway him into fighting Lindland and Choi instead (immediately following the collapse of course.)

Gonzaga who had lost 2 in a row and was about to fight Justin McCully

Unsurprisingly MORE REVISIONIST HISTORY. Fedor left Pride in 2006. By 2007 Gonzaga was 8-1 and had just beaten Cro Cop. That gives Fedor plenty of time to go in and face a legitimate HW.

Couture STILL not back in the UFC at this time.

Couture had only taken less than 12 months off and was back by March of 2007 to fight and BEAT Tim Sylvia in the Fight of the Year to capture the championship. There was never really a "time" that couture didn't exist in the UFC. As I stated, Couture has fought from 1997-2010 without missing a year.

So who in this group was Fedor ducking? Werdum was one of the top fighters, Fedor fought him. Nog and CC had already been beaten by Fedor. Vera was moving to LHW.

I think I just answered this question. As for Werdum, Fedor fought him years later once WERDUM went to SF. And by that time the UFC HW division was a lot better than SF's. Cain by that time was a contender, Brock was the reigning champion, Carwin was a contender, and JDS was making his way up the ladder (you know, the guy that knocked Werdum out cold to get up the ladder). And Brandon Vera didn't move to LHW until mid-2008, which is yet again more revisionist history, and once again gave Fedor plenty of time to have fought him.

There was a whole list of top fighters Fedor could have fought. He had an entire elite division to choose from, yet opted to fight cans. Yet your only response to this is that "He was working it out with the UFC so he kept himself busy...for AN ENTIRE YEAR. I want some sort of documentation that proves they were negotiating for a year or I call bullcrap. And even then, within a year AA and Sylvia were BOTH still in the UFC (among all the other Top HWs named) so I see no proof here that he wasn't ducking. Because...HE WAS



My point is the best fighters the UFC had at each of these time frames Fedor had either already beaten or would shortly after fight.

Your point is...folly. According to you, everything bad that happened in 2006-2009...all happened in 2006

[irishmike357]

Before I directly reply to anything...the revisionist history you are using here is disgusting. You are literally, picking all of these fighters in the very worst moments of their careers and acting like that's exactly what was happening at the exact time Pride fell out (and I will highlight every time you do this). It's disgusting. Plus you're ignoring everything else I said about how...if Fedor would have went over to UFC he would have fought guys like Mir, Couture, and Gonzaga and then LATER on fought Cain and JDS instead of Rogers and Werdum. But you're ignoring me...

Go check your dates man, I am not making things up. I will prove it to you I guess, or you can choose to ignore it, I don't care. Honestly not trying to be a dick here but you are saying Fedor ducked Mir and Gonzaga?

Maybe, but all the other contenders were doing just fine. He would have most likely had to have fought a contender before Brock ANYWAY. One fighter being sick isn't an excuse.

Which contender? Mir or Gonzaga? Or CroCop or Big Nog.


Once again, I wasn't suggesting he fight Cain right away...
Ok fair enough, so he is out of the question, because Fedor could have fought him right now, but Zuffa cut Fedor.

Same thing applies...but JDS had 4 fights in 2007, and THAT'S the one you choose to highlights? Nice. This shows exactly the way you're swaying everything here. Try to make it look as bad as possible.

The sale took place in May 2007 and Pride closed it's doors in October 2007, JDS lost to Ferriera in November. Ok so he was a 4-0 prospect fighting in XFC when the sale took place and by the time people were crossing over he lost 1 and won 1 more fight, still not in any top org. Can't say Fedor ducked him.

Once again, he fought every damn year of his career and never fought any where else but the UFC. No excuses.

If you don't know that from October 2007 until September 2008 Couture was gone from the UFC I don't know what to say man. It is a fact though. Again not making it up, go look it up.

Yeah but he was 10-3 overall. Stop revising things to fit your views. He held a win over Tim Sylvia as well whom you claim to be superior competition
Yeah he beat Sylvia 3 years before the sale of Pride and before a horrendous motorcycle accident. He obviously was not the same fighter and his 2-2 record to low level guys proves it.

Once again, more bullcrap swaying and revision. AA's last UFC fight was in 2008, so that does not count as immediately after the fall of Pride, sorry but that's over one year which gave Fedor plenty of time to fight AA in the UFC.

Don't mean to be an ass here but you need to look at months man. AA's last fight was in MARCH, Pride closed shop in October. That gave Fedor 6 months to sign and fight AA, really 3 months since AA was signed to a fight in January of 2008. Are you actually saying Fedor ducked AA?

Want to see how easy it is to revise things to fit my views?

Sylvia was 2-2 in his last few fights and had just lost his title, coming into the Fedor fight with a loss, to a man Fedor had already beaten

Cool but again you are ignoring Months here. At the closing of Pride Sylvia was 7-1 and as I said just lost to Couture and was 2 weeks out from beating Vera. Again are you really saying Fedor ducked Sylvia?

Ok, so what was wrong with Gonzaga? What was wrong with Vera?
Nothing. They just were not the best in the UFC at the time.

Fedor opted to fight Lindland and Choi instead of go in and fight these two guys, at the very least (because you know, these are the lesser Top HWs of that time)? Especially when he had already fought guys like Goodridge and Yuji Nagata, who are obviously lesser to Vera and Gonzaga. The offering of competition immediately following the collapse of Pride was a lot better than outside of the UFC. Say what you will about these guys, but they were the best to offer.
Yes Gonzaga and Vera were better than Choi and Lindland lol, but did you want Fedor to just sit on his ass waiting for a contract to happen? No so he went and fought.



This is a completely baseless claim. Do you have anything to back it up? You have nothing proving this. From the time he had his last fight in Pride, until the time he fought Choi, a year had passed. How long could it possibly take to sign a guy into your company? 1 year is out of the question...

Again if you were not around during this time you didn't miss much. There were negotiations between Vadim and White from summer of 07 until October of 07 when Fedor signed with M1. Dana wanted to wait until after Fedor's Combat Sambo tournament in late 07 to sign him. Dana White wanted to wait. So he couldn't sign before 08 anyway.

As I previously stated, he had plenty of time to go to the UFC and fight AA. Immediately after the fall of Pride, AA was still inside the UFC kicking ass. So that leaves what, Sylvia and Barnett? That's it? He should wait to go to Affliction because of two HW competitors? One of which was coming off of a loss to a UFC competitor?

No when Affliction formed AA was not in the UFC kicking ass, he was in Affliction kicking ass. Along with Sylvia and Barnett, and some lower tiered guys. A much better HW stable than what UFC had at the time in a sick Brock and Mir, Vera, Werdum.

Once again...I wasn't suggesting immediately fighting Lesnar
I'm talking about 08 now. And Brock was one of the top UFC HWs that had not already been beaten by Fedor, believe it or not.

11-3 dude, no more revising!
Ok 11-3. Do you really think he was the same as before his crash at that point?

Brandon Vera who has had just lost Sylvia (now with Affliction)

Brandon Vera lost to Sylvia in 2007, Fedor left Pride in 2006. When Fedor left Pride, Vera was 8-0, and a more legitimate 8-0 than Wagner Martin. Yet you're going to discredit Vera's legitimacy? Well then you must do the same for Zulu whom Fedor fought in Pride in the prime of his career. That or not do it at all.

This whole section is about 2008 when he chose Affliction instead of UFC. Sylvia beat Vera in October 2007, which was right before Fedor (and Sylvia) went to Affliction. When Vera was 8-0 Pride was very much still around.

This is bad?
No. Werdum was just not as high level as Sylvia, AA and Barnett. Also Fedor fought Werdum (a much better Werdum actually). Are you really saying Fedor ducked Werdum?

I see the point with Big Nog, but what was wrong with a Cro Cop rematch anyway? Not to say he was ducking Cro Cop (maybe he was, he got rocked hard) but why would the fact Cro Cop was in the league sway him into fighting Lindland and Choi instead (immediately following the collapse of course.)

Not taking anything away from CroCop because I STILL rock the LHK in my sig, but he was done at this point. Also I think the UFC was doing a UFC vs Pride thing and would not have matched them up. Dana said he was gonna give Fedor 1 fight in the UFC then have a title unification fight. I don't think CroCop Fedor 2 was ever in the works. Although I would have liked it.

Unsurprisingly MORE REVISIONIST HISTORY. Fedor left Pride in 2006. By 2007 Gonzaga was 8-1 and had just beaten Cro Cop. That gives Fedor plenty of time to go in and face a legitimate HW.

Fedor's last fight in Pride was December 31st, 2006 lmao. And his contract didn't expire until mid 2007. In fact when he fought Lindland he was still under his Pride contract (he could fight for another org as long as it was in Russia). Also I am talking about 2008 when he chose Affliction over UFC. Gonzaga was good but not as good as the guys in Affliction.

Couture had only taken less than 12 months off and was back by March of 2007 to fight and BEAT Tim Sylvia in the Fight of the Year to capture the championship. There was never really a "time" that couture didn't exist in the UFC. As I stated, Couture has fought from 1997-2010 without missing a year.

The time off I am talking about is after the Sylvia and Gonzaga fights when Couture left from October 2007 - Sept 2008. When Fedor signed with Affliction Couture was not in the UFC. That is the time Couture didn't exist in the UFC. Why do you think Nog and Sylvia fought for the Interim title?

I think I just answered this question.
You didn't. Honestly. Do you think he ducked Gonzaga, Mir and Vera?

As for Werdum, Fedor fought him years later once WERDUM went to SF. And by that time the UFC HW division was a lot better than SF's. Cain by that time was a contender, Brock was the reigning champion, Carwin was a contender, and JDS was making his way up the ladder (you know, the guy that knocked Werdum out cold to get up the ladder). And Brandon Vera didn't move to LHW until mid-2008, which is yet again more revisionist history, and once again gave Fedor plenty of time to have fought him.

By the time any of those guys were contenders Fedor was in a contract. He can't leave a contract to go fight some one else. He could still go fight them now but Zuffa cut him.



Your point is...folly. According to you, everything bad that happened in 2006-2009...all happened in 2006 [/color]

No. First of all the entire first half of my post was about 2007 when Pride was bought, Fedor left and Pride was shut down. The second half of my post was about 2008 when Affliction came around. I am sorry if I made that confusing (seriously, not being a dick).

Hey I am not being an ass when I say this 50cal, but you should really go read about the history of the sport at that time. You seem to have missed some key events.

[burtonboarder]

diaz never ducked a fight

which one because I'm pretty sure Nick ducked Mayhem

the guy who lost to dollaway? you think that guy would beat diaz? or that diaz would duck an inferior fighter? and out of his weight class, wasn't a champ, could barely string two wins together, mayhem stopped giving a crap about mma

[KingJoe]

diaz never ducked a fight

which one because I'm pretty sure Nick ducked Mayhem

the guy who lost to dollaway? you think that guy would beat diaz? or that diaz would duck an inferior fighter? and out of his weight class, wasn't a champ, could barely string two wins together, mayhem stopped giving a crap about mma

that's what I'm saying he said he'd cut to 178

[50calReaper]

Before I directly reply to anything...the revisionist history you are using here is disgusting. You are literally, picking all of these fighters in the very worst moments of their careers and acting like that's exactly what was happening at the exact time Pride fell out (and I will highlight every time you do this). It's disgusting. Plus you're ignoring everything else I said about how...if Fedor would have went over to UFC he would have fought guys like Mir, Couture, and Gonzaga and then LATER on fought Cain and JDS instead of Rogers and Werdum. But you're ignoring me...

Go check your dates man, I am not making things up. I will prove it to you I guess, or you can choose to ignore it, I don't care. Honestly not trying to be a dick here but you are saying Fedor ducked Mir and Gonzaga?

No, I'm not saying he was scared of any of these guys, but they were legitimate competition and MUCH better than what he was fed the years after the fall of Pride.

Maybe, but all the other contenders were doing just fine. He would have most likely had to have fought a contender before Brock ANYWAY. One fighter being sick isn't an excuse.

Which contender? Mir or Gonzaga? Or CroCop or Big Nog.

During the time of Brock being champion, there were many contenders. Mir, Carwin was making an uprising, and Cain was up in the rankings. That's what I'm saying though, you keep jumping back and forth in time to support your position and end up constantly confusing yourself, and then blaming it on me.


Once again, I wasn't suggesting he fight Cain right away...
Ok fair enough, so he is out of the question, because Fedor could have fought him right now, but Zuffa cut Fedor.

Yes, for dropping 3 in a row. Though even if he wasn't cut, I don't see them giving Fedor Cain. He wouldn't deserve at that point.

Same thing applies...but JDS had 4 fights in 2007, and THAT'S the one you choose to highlights? Nice. This shows exactly the way you're swaying everything here. Try to make it look as bad as possible.

The sale took place in May 2007 and Pride closed it's doors in October 2007, JDS lost to Ferriera in November. Ok so he was a 4-0 prospect fighting in XFC when the sale took place and by the time people were crossing over he lost 1 and won 1 more fight, still not in any top org. Can't say Fedor ducked him.

Yes but Fedor stopped fighting in Pride in 2006. But I wasn't saying he ducked JDS at this point in time, because he was a relevant no name, but I was just pointing out how you're being transparent, with making the situation look as bad as possible and with all of the fights JDS had that year, you chose that one. What you said was basically stating that...at this point in time, all JDS was doing was getting submitted by Ferriera, whom he beat the previous fight.

Once again, he fought every damn year of his career and never fought any where else but the UFC. No excuses.

If you don't know that from October 2007 until September 2008 Couture was gone from the UFC I don't know what to say man. It is a fact though. Again not making it up, go look it up.

Yeah the months are a little off, but that's 1-2 months. If you want to get technical, ok that's fine, but Couture was never gone for very long and if Fedor would have jumped into the UFC and fought Mir or Gonzaga, his next fight could have easily been Couture, if not the fight after that. It was not an impossibility in the least bit.

Yeah but he was 10-3 overall. Stop revising things to fit your views. He held a win over Tim Sylvia as well whom you claim to be superior competition
Yeah he beat Sylvia 3 years before the sale of Pride and before a horrendous motorcycle accident. He obviously was not the same fighter and his 2-2 record to low level guys proves it.

Well his fight immediately after the bike accident wasn't good. Though Marcio Cruz turned out to be a decent fighter so it's not like he lost to Cabbage. But he looked a lot better against Hardonk, and was showing obvius signs of recovering and improvement. I'm sorry, but whichever way you want to slice it, he still had a very decent record, and defeated Sylvia in the very peek of Tim's career.

Once again, more bullcrap swaying and revision. AA's last UFC fight was in 2008, so that does not count as immediately after the fall of Pride, sorry but that's over one year which gave Fedor plenty of time to fight AA in the UFC.

Don't mean to be an ass here but you need to look at months man. AA's last fight was in MARCH, Pride closed shop in October. That gave Fedor 6 months to sign and fight AA, really 3 months since AA was signed to a fight in January of 2008. Are you actually saying Fedor ducked AA?

No not at all. I was saying that AA was still in UFC at the time, so there was no reason he shouldn't go to the UFC from a "lack of competition". The competition was there and it was vast, more than any league. Your counter-argument is that he didn't go to the UFC because everybody was all fucked up or not there. I'm saying that they actually were there and only left around 2 years after Fedor's last fight in Pride, so there's no excuses for not transferring over and instead fighting Choi and Lindland. And just so you know...6 months to sign and fight somebody is plenty of time, especially in that era of MMA. I mean come on, Fedor had 3 fights in 2005 and those weren't even part of a GP, and you're going to sit there and act like 6 months to sign and fight AA in the UFC was not an option?

Want to see how easy it is to revise things to fit my views?

Sylvia was 2-2 in his last few fights and had just lost his title, coming into the Fedor fight with a loss, to a man Fedor had already beaten

Cool but again you are ignoring Months here. At the closing of Pride Sylvia was 7-1 and as I said just lost to Couture and was 2 weeks out from beating Vera. Again are you really saying Fedor ducked Sylvia?

Hah it's pretty obvious what I was doing. I was showing you how easy it is to undermine the competition and make things look bad, which is exactly what you were doing to the UFC roster. I'm not saying he ducked Sylvia, I'm once again saying, he was in the UFC a couple years after Fedor's last fight in Pride so Sylvia being on the roster was even more reason for him to go. It was the perfect opportunity to go after top flight competition in a league with decent pay and commercial exposure. There is absolutely no reason for him have no gone.

Ok, so what was wrong with Gonzaga? What was wrong with Vera?
Nothing. They just were not the best in the UFC at the time.

Still...better than Lindland and Choi, and seriously even Rogers.

Fedor opted to fight Lindland and Choi instead of go in and fight these two guys, at the very least (because you know, these are the lesser Top HWs of that time)? Especially when he had already fought guys like Goodridge and Yuji Nagata, who are obviously lesser to Vera and Gonzaga. The offering of competition immediately following the collapse of Pride was a lot better than outside of the UFC. Say what you will about these guys, but they were the best to offer.
Yes Gonzaga and Vera were better than Choi and Lindland lol, but did you want Fedor to just sit on his ass waiting for a contract to happen? No so he went and fought.



This is a completely baseless claim. Do you have anything to back it up? You have nothing proving this. From the time he had his last fight in Pride, until the time he fought Choi, a year had passed. How long could it possibly take to sign a guy into your company? 1 year is out of the question...

Again if you were not around during this time you didn't miss much. There were negotiations between Vadim and White from summer of 07 until October of 07 when Fedor signed with M1. Dana wanted to wait until after Fedor's Combat Sambo tournament in late 07 to sign him. Dana White wanted to wait. So he couldn't sign before 08 anyway.

Again, you're acting like it takes 6 months to a year to sign somebody. If that was the case, this would make sense, but it's not. The first Affliction PPV was in July of 2008, so late 2007 being somewhere in September I'm assuming, that gives Dana and Fedor anywhere from 6-9 months to sign. Besides the fact of...why would Fedor hold off on getting a leg up of competition just to do sambo? GSP wanted to do the Olympics but he decided against it, Anderson Silva has wanted to box RJJ, Nick Diaz wanted to go do pro boxing as well, but they all put that aside because they wanted to continue doing MMA and fighting the best competition there was to offer. But Fedor doesn't just to go do sambo? I mean, I respect his choice to go after other things besides just MMA, but that doesn't really help his case when it comes to ducking the UFC. Seems all a little too convenient.

As I previously stated, he had plenty of time to go to the UFC and fight AA. Immediately after the fall of Pride, AA was still inside the UFC kicking ass. So that leaves what, Sylvia and Barnett? That's it? He should wait to go to Affliction because of two HW competitors? One of which was coming off of a loss to a UFC competitor?

No when Affliction formed AA was not in the UFC kicking ass, he was in Affliction kicking ass. Along with Sylvia and Barnett, and some lower tiered guys. A much better HW stable than what UFC had at the time in a sick Brock and Mir, Vera, Werdum.

I said "IMMEDIATELY AFTER THE FALL OF PRIDE" AA was kicking ass. I said nothing off Affliction. Are you even paying attention now, or are you just skimming past my posts at this point? But I'm sorry anyway, AA, Sylvia, and Barnett, only three tops guys, was not better than the OVERALL competition there was in the UFC. Besides that, it's not like Fedor knew that Affliction would arise, so at the time of him leaving Pride, he only knew what was readily available, and that's that there was a lot of top HW fighters in the UFC. So you're telling me he waited 2 years hoping some league would form with these 3 guys in it?

Once again...I wasn't suggesting immediately fighting Lesnar
I'm talking about 08 now. And Brock was one of the top UFC HWs that had not already been beaten by Fedor, believe it or not.

Ohhhhh ok. So you're once again picking and choosing what years we talk about and don't, at your convenience? Well that's a contradiction because at the beginning you said "Let me show you what the HW roster looked like immediately after the fall of Pride". 2008 is not immediately after the fall of Pride. This is yet another tactic at trying to make the HW division look terrible inside the UFC when really it was doing alright. All of these incidents that you have highlighted were separate and did not effect the entire roster at one point in time as you are attempting to make out to be.

11-3 dude, no more revising!
Ok 11-3. Do you really think he was the same as before his crash at that point?

Well considering he only lost 2 fights and then went on a decent win-streak beating Lesnar and Nogueira the guy that was Fedor's biggest challenge in Pride...I think it's safe to say the you're exaggerating just how much the accident affected him. He had a very fast recovery and I doubt Fedor was sitting there going "Well I would go to the UFC...but now we've got Motorcycle Mir, and he's just not the same."

Brandon Vera who has had just lost Sylvia (now with Affliction)

Brandon Vera lost to Sylvia in 2007, Fedor left Pride in 2006. When Fedor left Pride, Vera was 8-0, and a more legitimate 8-0 than Wagner Martin. Yet you're going to discredit Vera's legitimacy? Well then you must do the same for Zulu whom Fedor fought in Pride in the prime of his career. That or not do it at all.

This whole section is about 2008 when he chose Affliction instead of UFC. Sylvia beat Vera in October 2007, which was right before Fedor (and Sylvia) went to Affliction. When Vera was 8-0 Pride was very much still around.

Well then we're talking about two different things. I'm saying that immediately following the demise of Pride, the HW division had a bunch of young studs that were ready to kick some ass...meanwhile Barnett is floating around somewhere? Yet you choose to randomly jump towards 2008 which is long after Fedor's last fight in Pride, in order to make things look bad. Sure Pride was around, but it was dead and Fedor knew that. He wasn't dumb.

This is bad?
No. Werdum was just not as high level as Sylvia, AA and Barnett. Also Fedor fought Werdum (a much better Werdum actually). Are you really saying Fedor ducked Werdum?

At that point Sylvia was up in the rankings, but Werdum still had a very decent record and was yet another great addition to the UFC division at the time. Like I've been saying...overall, the UFC had the most in-depth roster with the most options for HW battles. There was no reason to refrain from going.

I see the point with Big Nog, but what was wrong with a Cro Cop rematch anyway? Not to say he was ducking Cro Cop (maybe he was, he got rocked hard) but why would the fact Cro Cop was in the league sway him into fighting Lindland and Choi instead (immediately following the collapse of course.)

Not taking anything away from CroCop because I STILL rock the LHK in my sig, but he was done at this point. Also I think the UFC was doing a UFC vs Pride thing and would not have matched them up. Dana said he was gonna give Fedor 1 fight in the UFC then have a title unification fight. I don't think CroCop Fedor 2 was ever in the works. Although I would have liked it.

Yeah I still rock the LHK too. Cro Cop was a beast and always has been. But once again my point is...there was no lack of competition in the HW ranks of the UFC. You're getting into semantics at this point with the whole "Pride vs. UFC" and "Cro Cop was done" when I'm talking about the root argument that...there was absolutely no shortage of competition by any means.

Unsurprisingly MORE REVISIONIST HISTORY. Fedor left Pride in 2006. By 2007 Gonzaga was 8-1 and had just beaten Cro Cop. That gives Fedor plenty of time to go in and face a legitimate HW.

Fedor's last fight in Pride was December 31st, 2006 lmao. And his contract didn't expire until mid 2007. In fact when he fought Lindland he was still under his Pride contract (he could fight for another org as long as it was in Russia). Also I am talking about 2008 when he chose Affliction over UFC. Gonzaga was good but not as good as the guys in Affliction.

So....you're telling me Fedor was in one league, yet fighting in another, while waiting over a year to sign with another. Sounds like a big tongue-twisting amount off bullcrap to me But let's assume that WAS true...well Pride was over with in October, yet in December, Fedor still went to go fight Choi. It just doesn't add up...

Couture had only taken less than 12 months off and was back by March of 2007 to fight and BEAT Tim Sylvia in the Fight of the Year to capture the championship. There was never really a "time" that couture didn't exist in the UFC. As I stated, Couture has fought from 1997-2010 without missing a year.

The time off I am talking about is after the Sylvia and Gonzaga fights when Couture left from October 2007 - Sept 2008. When Fedor signed with Affliction Couture was not in the UFC. That is the time Couture didn't exist in the UFC. Why do you think Nog and Sylvia fought for the Interim title?

Yes I'm aware of this, but right after the fall of Pride, once again, Couture was still in, so if Fedor refrained from joining the UFC due to lack of competition, there was no lack. Maybe once he went over to the UFC and wanted to fight Couture, it would have caused some problems, but at some point in time, the fight would have happened. It wasn't certain right out of the gate that Couture would be absent from the UFC roster had Fedor joined.

I think I just answered this question.
You didn't. Honestly. Do you think he ducked Gonzaga, Mir and Vera?

I did though. He chose to fight Lindland and Choi instead of going and fighting these guys. Now call that what you want...but that's what happened.

As for Werdum, Fedor fought him years later once WERDUM went to SF. And by that time the UFC HW division was a lot better than SF's. Cain by that time was a contender, Brock was the reigning champion, Carwin was a contender, and JDS was making his way up the ladder (you know, the guy that knocked Werdum out cold to get up the ladder). And Brandon Vera didn't move to LHW until mid-2008, which is yet again more revisionist history, and once again gave Fedor plenty of time to have fought him.

By the time any of those guys were contenders Fedor was in a contract. He can't leave a contract to go fight some one else. He could still go fight them now but Zuffa cut him.

You know honestly, I'm not sure exactly how long Fedor's contract was, but I know that it wasn't a 6 fight deal. By the time Fedor fought Rogers, all of the guys mentioned WERE contenders. If Fedor really actually cared to fight top flight competition, he could have worked something out. HE WAS FEDOR. But every time Dana would make a move...the reaction was just weird. I mean come on! Dana flew to an island for him! And the resulting "no" wasn't because of contract constrictions with SF...it had to do with sambo and the lack of co-promotion, because unsurprisingly (despite the readily available competition) Fedor STILL wanted to go fight lesser people in lesser leagues.


Your point is...folly. According to you, everything bad that happened in 2006-2009...all happened in 2006 [/color]

No. First of all the entire first half of my post was about 2007 when Pride was bought, Fedor left and Pride was shut down. The second half of my post was about 2008 when Affliction came around. I am sorry if I made that confusing (seriously, not being a dick).

Well considering my entire argument was about how Fedor could have went to the UFC RIGHT AFTER Pride fell out, and fought better guys than what he did for the first year...2008 is irrelevant, so the point is still folly. I was never talking about 2008 in my points, you chose to do that on your own, and once again confused yourself.

Hey I am not being an ass when I say this 50cal, but you should really go read about the history of the sport at that time. You seem to have missed some key events.

Well I appreciate the concern, but I'm fine. Neither one of us is an official MMA Historian...but with the use of the internet, it's not hard to find documentation to prove your points, and you've yet to do that. Despite that, I've played along anyway, but your case is not bulletproof by any means. Let's just admit we aren't getting anywhere

[burtonboarder]

diaz never ducked a fight

which one because I'm pretty sure Nick ducked Mayhem

the guy who lost to dollaway? you think that guy would beat diaz? or that diaz would duck an inferior fighter? and out of his weight class, wasn't a champ, could barely string two wins together, mayhem stopped giving a crap about mma

that's what I'm saying he said he'd cut to 178

And that makes sense for Diaz? to gain weight to fight some guy who calls him out and can barely win two in a row. And why couldnt mayhem cut to 170 and fight for Diaz' strikeforce belt? nah.. that's too much work to earn a title shot, just talk shit to get fights like Sonnen... But instead jason tells the champ he has to move up to catchweight to fight him but who cant win two fights in a row at MW himself...yeah sounds perfect for his haters to latch on to, i could turn around and say mayhem ducked 170 to fight for the title just as easily, it wouldve actually happened if mayhem would've played ball, fuck catchweight fights with nothing to gain, diaz was champ, fight for his belt for fuck off mayhem

[irishmike357]

Yes but Fedor stopped fighting in Pride in 2006.

[50calReaper]

Yes but Fedor stopped fighting in Pride in 2006.

What did I say about your arguments getting thinner and thinner? Now you've resorted to one sentence and then three smilies...even after I called a cease-fire. You just don't know when to quit do you?

You're one of those "I don't agree with you, so you must be stupid" kind of people.

Ok allow me to correct myself. Fedor stopped fighting in Pride at the very end of 2006 and the very beginning of 2007. During this time, AA, Sylvia, and Couture were still within the UFC roster...so this means that my points still stand strong and at this point you're arguing in piddly semantics because you have nothing else to say. So just based on that...I'm not replying to you anymore, I've been more than polite towards the end of this little exchange, and still you continue on beating the dead horse and borderline trolling. Have a good one you jabroni.

[irishmike357]

You're one of those "I don't agree with you, so you must be stupid" kind of people.

Haha I never called you stupid man. Anyone with 50cal in his name is ok in my book. The M2 was my weapon in Iraq and Afghanistan

Anyway, you really should go look up when Fedor's contract with Pride ended. It might help your argument a bit.