DreadLobster wrote: Loyalty13 wrote: DreadLobster wrote:
MuayCrim wrote:Fedor is a bigger win then anyone Cain has beaten. And Cain just got KTFO in a minute.
No one wants to talk about this. If they accept this fact, then they have to admit that Fedor is not a can, and that he is even still very possibly top 10 at HW
. And that is just too much for the average UFC fanboy to accept. Cain's biggest win: Big Nog. Already beaten by Fedor twice. Second biggest win: 5-3 Brock Lesnar, already retired.
Please don't misunderstand: I am not knocking Cain. I personally hold him in very high regard. But if you acknowledge Cain as being top 10 based on his record, then you can't possibly discredit Bigfoot. There's a horrible breakdown in logic if you try to.
why would we have to accept Fedor is still top ten based off what Crim said?
Well this is probably gonna be a long response. Just a heads up.
First off, I didn't say that Fedor is definitely top 10, I just said possibly. Honestly HW is still a mess to rank. His 3 fight losing streak obviously set him back a bunch. And while I would still not count him out against anyone, I get why he could be ranked out of the top 10. Moving on...
The point was that Bigfoot and Cain should both be ranked very closely, despite some people acting like they are not in the same league.
Bigfoot beat Fedor (31-1, realistically, at the time), as Crim said. That's his biggest win, clearly. Agreed?
Bigfoot's second biggest win would be Arlovksi, who he actually outstruck. If not Arlovski, its probably Ricco, who regardless of being currently irrelevant, has put together exactly 20 wins since that loss.
What's Cain's biggest win, if not Nogueira??
Nog got beaten by Fedor twice in his prime, and before the loss to Cain, lost to Mir horribly, definitely out of his prime... not much of an argument about that one.
Cain's second biggest win? Probably Lesnar. 5-3, retired. I considered Lesnar a legit competitor, but the general consensus now seems to be that he was a joke and he couldn't take a punch. Either way, if his name wasn't Brock Lesnar, he probably wouldn't have been champ, and he wouldn't have been considered near as big of a win.
But since most people nowadays don't count Brock for much, it could be Rothwell (horrible stoppage where Rothwell was standing up against the cage because the punches clearly weren't hurting him) or Kongo, who dropped Cain with every punch he landed (again, I still give Cain credit for the win, Kongo is not a bum and Cain did clearly win).
Which is more impressive? I say they're about on par with each other. I'm only defending Cain's points to avoid people saying I'm just a hater of Cain. I'm a fan of Cain, and I think he'll destroy Bigfoot. But rankings wise, they should be considered right around the same.
Back to why this means Fedor might still be top 10... Compare him to some other people in some top 10 lists:
Big Nog: Also 2-3 in his last 5, but as I said, lost to Fedor twice already. Can't see how he can be ranked above Fedor. Cain's biggest win.
Roy Nelson: 3-5 in his last 8, wins over (washed up) Cro Cop, Struve, Schaub... Losses include MONSON (obviously relevant to Fedor).
Carwin: Hasn't had a win in over 2 years. Still definitely a force... not counting him out. But top 10 still? People bitch about Fedor being inactive. Carwin has WAY less relevant wins than Fedor. Seriously... I get that he's dangerous, but how is he on so many top 10 lists still?
Cormier: Looks awesome so far, but his only big wins are Monson (Also just dominated by Fedor) and Bigfoot. If Fedor wasn't top 10, then that would mean Bigfoot had zero top 10 wins, and I don't see how beating him would mean Cormier could be top 10.
So like I said, I won't argue with people not having Fedor in the top 10, and I don't even necessarily think that he IS at the moment top 10...
But there's at least 4 people who could questionably be replaced in the top 10, and probably more than that who its safe to assume Fedor would be more than competitive against.