Fighting Not To Lose

[DJMaxPower]

After watching the Evans/Jones fight this past weekend I can't help but feel that both fighters didn't want to win as much as they simply did not want to lose. I've noticed this in a lot of UFC fights over the past year or so, especially in title fights. (Other organizations don't get this as much, probably because those fighters are trying to put on the kind of show that will get them noticed by the UFC.) I think this is also partially responsible for more fights going to decision rather than ending in spectacular fashion.

So what happened? Has the evolution of the sport and the increased skill of the fighters led to less exciting fights? Or are fighters becoming more conservative, holding back out of fear of losing? I mean, I think GSP is a great fighter and all, but he hasn't finished a fight in a while. Sometimes I feel like it's more fun to pull out a copy of one of those old Tank Abbott fights and watch some unvarnished ass kicking instead...

[LiamHillen]

After watching the Evans/Jones fight this past weekend I can't help but feel that both fighters didn't want to win as much as they simply did not want to lose. I've noticed this in a lot of UFC fights over the past year or so, especially in title fights. (Other organizations don't get this as much, probably because those fighters are trying to put on the kind of show that will get them noticed by the UFC.) I think this is also partially responsible for more fights going to decision rather than ending in spectacular fashion.

So what happened? Has the evolution of the sport and the increased skill of the fighters led to less exciting fights? Or are fighters becoming more conservative, holding back out of fear of losing? I mean, I think GSP is a great fighter and all, but he hasn't finished a fight in a while. Sometimes I feel like it's more fun to pull out a copy of one of those old Tank Abbott fights and watch some unvarnished ass kicking instead...

I know where your coming from with the Jones - Evens fight , they both seemed timid.

[CyberFedor]

It doesn't help when the UFC is discussing cutting a guy after two or three losses.

[muythaijitsu]

I dont think any fighter goes into a fight with the mentality that their going to fight not to loose. Its just that once they get in there, and see that their game plan isnt going as smooth as they thought, they fall into hanging around. Rashad thought he would do this and that to Jones, but he found out real quick that it was much harder to do with his body. He could have pressed it a little harder, but think about it. Its rashad and f he didnt press the action their must of been a reason.

[BrdrOkm69]

It doesn't help when the UFC is discussing cutting a guy after two or three losses.

Agreed, I feel like a lot of guys just aren't willing to "go for broke" from start to finish in a fight anymore because it's just too risky. If they get cut from the UFC, they'll end up in a much smaller promotion making much less money. Sadly, that's all a lot of guys fight for. The only time you really see guys go for broke is when they know they're losing and it's the very end of a fight, with a handful of exceptions.

[50calReaper]

I got the impression that both fighters were trying to finish in the beginning, but them Evans got smashed a few times and then from around halfway through Round 3 and above RASHAD fought not to get finished and at that point Jones already had him severely beaten (at least in points) and it would be stupid for him to rush forward and run into an overhand from Evans. But even then, Jones was still pressing forward and instigating the majority of the exchanges and getting off with some nice strikes. There's not much you can do when your opponent is backpedaling and strafing to the left and right (you know, running) for the whole rest of the fight. I agree that it's sometimes boring when champions do that, but they have a legacy, a belt, and a lot of money at stake and satisfying the fans with a finish when you already have the fight won isn't really at the top of their list of priorities. There's always two sides to a story. Although sometimes fighters overdo it.

For example, if you have somebody beaten so badly and with your given skill set you could easily fit in a headkick as they're turning their head away from you and finish it, why let the fight drag out? This example is pretty open but specifically, I am talking about the GSP/Koscheck fight. Koscheck couldn't really see out of his left eye and GSP had a clear striking advantage, yet it seemed like he was perfectly content with jabbing his way to a victory, though the whole time a switch kick to the head was wide open. Despite this...he never really attempted to try for it. When it comes to the Jones/Evans fight though...Jones was out-striking Rashad but he didn't have him beat like GSP did with Koscheck. It's unrealistic to demand a fighter like Jones to go after a fighter like Rashad in that situation. He was still very much in the fight and dangerous, but was way behind on points.

[duvalfan]

Almost all of the fighters who have already built a successful career will tend to fight not to lose because they have too much to lose. The ones who are trying to build careers will fight to win because they don't have much to lose.

[mmaisbetterthancorn]

I've been saying the UFC MMA product/brand/style is absolutely devolving. If Ultimate Fighting was played like it has been since @2008-09 from the beginning, the UFC would not be where it is today.

Zuffa is ultimately responsible for the quality of it's product. Just like any company. Dana & Lorenzo have a lot of quality control issues with what their company has been producing for the last few years. They are the guys responsible, not the fighters.

Zuffa now has a stable with a lot of intimidated/scared/oppressed/unhappy/undervalued/underpaid (relative-to-UFC revenue) fighters who fight in fear of losing, not to win. Zuffa doesn't seem smart enough to understand this. This will continue to hurt the quality of their product and negatively affect the UFC long-term. How can something less exciting with less action than what you used to sell... keep growing your business???

As far as coached/teams taking advantage of unintended loopholes in the modified-boxing rules... Zuffa easily has enough clout to make things move on that front. They own the sport and and have even more ginormous clout as Lorenzo is the former commissioner (big conflict of interest) of the NSAC & the Fertitta'a are the largest contributors to the Republican party in Nevada. Any excuses that Zuffa can't do anything about the rules is BS.

[asdfg12345]

I've been saying the UFC MMA product/brand/style is absolutely devolving. If Ultimate Fighting was played like it has been since @2008-09 from the beginning, the UFC would not be where it is today.

Zuffa is ultimately responsible for the quality of it's product. Just like any company. Dana & Lorenzo have a lot of quality control issues with what their company has been producing for the last few years. They are the guys responsible, not the fighters.

Zuffa now has a stable with a lot of intimidated/scared/oppressed/unhappy/undervalued/underpaid (relative-to-UFC revenue) fighters who fight in fear of losing, not to win. Zuffa doesn't seem smart enough to understand this. This will continue to hurt the quality of their product and negatively affect the UFC long-term. How can something less exciting with less action than what you used to sell... keep growing your business???

As far as coached/teams taking advantage of unintended loopholes in the modified-boxing rules... Zuffa easily has enough clout to make things move on that front. They own the sport and and have even more ginormous clout as Lorenzo is the former commissioner (big conflict of interest) of the NSAC & the Fertitta'a are the largest contributors to the Republican party in Nevada. Any excuses that Zuffa can't do anything about the rules is BS.

bro, this aint russia where you can get everything done with bribes. And talking about oppressed/unhappy/undervalued/underpaid fighters, we should be looking toward m-1 lol. If anything, the fact that UFC paies better than anyone else in the business is the reason why no one wants to lose or else they get demoted back to m-1

[2ys]

There's fighting conservatively and there's fighting defensively.

Fighting conservatively is avoiding as many unnecessary risks as possible.
-This is fighting to win, but not fighting to finish.

Fighting defensively is doing whatever you can to survive.
-This is fighting not to lose, but really fighting not to be finished.

GSP fights conservatively. His opponents often fight extremely defensively, which is why the Diaz match-up was so fascinating.

In his fight with Jones, Rashad was fighting conservatively up until he got smacked with that one elbow that wobbled him, that's when he went defensive.

[biggs7a]

Yeah I've also seen this,can't help but think yellow cards would be great.

[MuayCrim]

The first three rounds I thought were really exciting and both guys were throwing some mean leather. Last 2 rounds....not so much.

[jjmmajkd]

I think they just dont want to be cut, for every Jason Miller and Dan Hardy there are lots of guys who put on exciting fights and have loss streaks, they seem to care more about keeping thier job than entertaining the crowd

[6RANDON1POSEY9]

It doesn't help when the UFC is discussing cutting a guy after two or three losses.

While that's true, at the same time they've made it clear that if you put on great fights you're not going anywhere.

[Roadkill66]

I got the impression that both fighters were trying to finish in the beginning, but them Evans got smashed a few times and then from around halfway through Round 3 and above RASHAD fought not to get finished and at that point Jones already had him severely beaten (at least in points) and it would be stupid for him to rush forward and run into an overhand from Evans. But even then, Jones was still pressing forward and instigating the majority of the exchanges and getting off with some nice strikes. There's not much you can do when your opponent is backpedaling and strafing to the left and right (you know, running) for the whole rest of the fight. I agree that it's sometimes boring when champions do that, but they have a legacy, a belt, and a lot of money at stake and satisfying the fans with a finish when you already have the fight won isn't really at the top of their list of priorities. There's always two sides to a story. Although sometimes fighters overdo it.

For example, if you have somebody beaten so badly and with your given skill set you could easily fit in a headkick as they're turning their head away from you and finish it, why let the fight drag out? This example is pretty open but specifically, I am talking about the GSP/Koscheck fight. Koscheck couldn't really see out of his left eye and GSP had a clear striking advantage, yet it seemed like he was perfectly content with jabbing his way to a victory, though the whole time a switch kick to the head was wide open. Despite this...he never really attempted to try for it. When it comes to the Jones/Evans fight though...Jones was out-striking Rashad but he didn't have him beat like GSP did with Koscheck. It's unrealistic to demand a fighter like Jones to go after a fighter like Rashad in that situation. He was still very much in the fight and dangerous, but was way behind on points.

I agree with this. Jones OBVIOUSLY finishes when it feels right to him, but he didn't with Rashad. he's the one in the cage with Rashad so he's seeing things we're not. I think he did fine. He did end up fighting a bit conservatively but nothing ridiculous like you mentioned with the Koscheck/GSP fight.

Now if bones from here on out starts L n Ping his opponents and wins UDs his next few fights then we can say something about it but lets look at his recent record excluding Rashad. All in order.

Machida- guillotine choke, 2nd round
Rampage- RNC
Shogun - TKO
Ryan Bader - Guillotine choke, 2nd round
Vladimir Matyushenko- TKO rd 1
Brandon Vera- TKO round 1
Matt Hamil (this might as well be considered a 1st round TKO for Jones)
jake O'Brien- Guillotine choke, round 2