Let's talk about elbows.

by **mmafan559** » Mon Apr 23, 2012 11:37 am

Elbows directed towards a downed opponent.

There were a lot of cuts from elbows in the latest UFC, with most of these coming from elbow strikes to a downed opponent. I know other mma organizations do not allow either elbow strikes period or elbow strikes on the ground. There was an elbow thrown in an NBA game this weekend that resulted in a concussion for a player, and that was from just one strike to the head.

I am not a fan of elbows, as they can result in cuts that can cause (rarely, I know) fights to be stopped prematurely and an elbow point is a dangerous weapon when used by a trained professional fighter. Just watching a certain fighter throw elbows makes me cringe.

From what I have read Bellator does not allow elbows until the final tournament round, and that organization is praised for having very exciting fights. But why are they only allowed in the final round? Just makes me curious.

Strikeforce didn't used to allow elbows to the heads of downed opponents at all, but it seems they are adopting UFC rules that will allow them.

So I'm just curious on to any other linker thoughts on "throwin' bows".

Do you see the UFC possibly making them illegal at some point? It will probably take a Big Daddy type of bloodbath during a free event on FOX for this to even be considered.

Please, let us have an intelligent discussion on the aforementioned topic.

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by **flesh** » Mon Apr 23, 2012 12:10 pm

Those standing elbows from Bones were crazy. I think standing elbows are here to stay but I could see ufc doing away with elbows on the ground. It wouldn't upset me as a fan, I think it would make the grappling more technical.

by **GUNNER2010** » Mon Apr 23, 2012 12:18 pm

Jones elbows where outstanding.

by **jaymoneymma26** » Mon Apr 23, 2012 12:34 pm

if you don't want to get elbowed while your on the ground then get your ass up.

by **leftnutnick** » Mon Apr 23, 2012 12:37 pm

Bones elbows where good, but Rory Mac elbows did more damage that night!! Rory Mac is a beast!!!

by **cerambus** » Mon Apr 23, 2012 12:39 pm

Decisions about techniques can be divided into two categories:
1. A rational based on physiological research/data to demonstrate that they are dangerous beyond other techniques.

2. based on emotion in response to pressure from fans, sponsors, and critics.

The decision not to include eye gouging falls into both categories. The decision to make blows to the back of the head illegal came from the first category. The decision to get rid of knees to the head of grounded opponent came from the second.

Elbows will fall under category 2.

by **BrdrOkm69** » Mon Apr 23, 2012 12:49 pm

Standing elbows are impressive when they land, but I do agree in the sense that elbows on the ground shouldn't be allowed. Sure, it's a legitimate form of martial arts, but so are several other techniques that are illegal in MMA.

When you break it down, elbows on the ground are basically dudes taking almost all the force of a punch and directing it into a much smaller area.

To get a little more scientific about why they cause cuts, the mathematical formula for pressure is P=F/A
Pressure = Force / Area

There's no distinct ratio for the size of the point of an elbow to a fist, but let's say it's 1:5 for example, that is, that the point of an elbow is five times smaller than a fist.

Taking that back to the equation, that would mean that if a fighter maintained the force of a punch while throwing an elbow, the pressure would be five times larger with the elbow.

It takes under 500 pounds per square inch of pressure, on average, to break skin. The average boxer can create around 1000 pounds per square inch of pressure in their punches, so if an MMA fighter hits as hard as a boxer, they could potentially break the skin with elbows 100% of the time if they connected properly.

All that being said, it's much harder to connect with elbows on the feet than on the ground, so it should be pretty okay to use them standing up. In all the fights I've seen where elbows aren't allowed on the ground, they're all more technical in terms of grappling, and they're all usually more entertaining than those where elbows are allowed (and utilized) on the ground. So basically, elbows shouldn't be allowed on the ground, at least not to the head/face of an opponent.

by **mrbwo** » Mon Apr 23, 2012 12:51 pm

Elbows is one of the many things that make Jon Jones special imo.

by **dwhid** » Mon Apr 23, 2012 12:57 pm

I like elbows. Taking away elbows on the ground would take away a lot of striking from guys like GSP, Jones, and MacDonald. If you are taking too much damage from elbows, then you have to improve your position or block them.

by **1098765432** » Mon Apr 23, 2012 1:05 pm

if knees to a downed opponent are illegal then elbow's shoud be ilegal as well.I dont think either should be illegal anywhere they are part of striking period so its dumb to outlaw one and not the other.

by **1098765432** » Mon Apr 23, 2012 1:07 pm

mrbwo wrote:Elbows is one of the many things that make Jon Jones special imo.

geee ya think?! Its one of the main things that allow him to win.

by **SakuRockemRobot** » Mon Apr 23, 2012 1:10 pm

I demand elbows on the ground be made illegal, by limiting effective strikes on the ground it will properly allow me to indulge further into my desire to insist fighters are lay and pray artists.

You know what? Fuck it. No more strikes on the ground, period.

No strikes while standing either. Too dangerous.

Ok, I suppose that's going far enough to point out that I find elbows as a viable and effective technique.

From what I have read Bellator does not allow elbows until the final tournament round, and that organization is praised for having very exciting fights. But why are they only allowed in the final round? Just makes me curious.

If I recall, Bellator uses a tournament style setup? In which case, it's more likely that cuts will carry over to their next fight and cause issues. The issues becomes moot once it's the final rounds.

by **Castrated Rhino** » Mon Apr 23, 2012 1:30 pm

I see no problem with them. They do damage and most definitely do not solely have the purpose of cutting guys. This thread has been repeated many times, and every time I have produced the same response: they should stay legal.

I've never heard a truly convincing argument otherwise. To people who say that they end fights early via cut, I say look back in the past, and you'll realize that there really haven't been THAT many cut stoppage fights, and on top of that only maybe half of those were due to elbows on the ground.

by **themull** » Mon Apr 23, 2012 1:45 pm

The reason bellator only allow elbows in the final round is to reduce guys getting badly cut in the first few rounds, thus making them more suceptable to suspension and as a result making the latter rounds of the tournament much more difficult to organise...

I have no problems with elbows...In fact I'm more of the opinion that if you cut your opponent up so bad so that it is too dangerous for him to continue fighting then so be it...

by **LiamHillen** » Mon Apr 23, 2012 1:47 pm

jaymoneymma26 wrote:if you don't want to get elbowed while your on the ground then get your ass up.

Well said brother