Official Religion Thread

[drunkendood]

Should rename this thread "Take it outside thread"

[MiniMan]

Should rename this thread "Take it outside thread"

[drunkendood]

Should rename this thread "Take it outside thread"

I don't know... tired.

[KingOfPancrase]

Gods grace and providence are not there to create recklessness. It is not there to do for man what he can do for himself, but what he cannot do for himself. Gods grace is there to perfect us not to make us lazy irresponsible or presumptuous.

This is the meaning behind one of the three tempations of Christ where the devil takes him to a high place and says "If you are the son of God throw yourself down from here for it is written [i][b]he will give his angels charge concerning you.[/b and in their hands they will bear you up.

Jesus replied [b]"Do not put the lord your God to the test."

Why is it when people talk about religion it always has to be unclear and in code? Why can't people just use clear simple statements that can be understood? Is the trick to talk in riddles so everyone is forced to interrupt what you are trying to say?

No it's a trick to spout a bunch of nonsense and useless blathering that try's to make you think it is saying something worthwhile when in reality it means nothing and is just an attempt by whichever moron is saying it to talk their way around logical argument.

It is only nonsense to people who do not understand it. I felt the same way before I really took the time to delve into it. There were many times that I picked up the Bible only to put it down in frustration and sometimes anger.

In order for it to make sense I had to learn the historical context in which the stories were written and also gain some background knowledge of the various religious groups involved in the stories. Most importantly I had to have spiritual experience that the stories could trigger, point out, help me navigate and deepen.

You see what you want to see in those stories. Those stories are just that, stories made up by primitive people(yes, there is no god, yes no divine being wrote the fucking bible) to explain things because they had no idea how things worked. I don't care how many spiritual experiences you have, or how many cryptic passages you type in this thread, it will forever remain nonsense to people that do understand what it is. Pure fantasy that provides the necessary blindfold for the wishful thinking millions indulge in daily.

[Brickbat]

Albert Einstein -

"The further the spiritual evolution of mankind advances, the more certain it seems to me that the path to genuine religiosity does not lie through the fear of life, and the fear of death, and blind faith, but through striving after rational knowledge."

[Brickbat]

Albert Einstein -

"A human being is a part of a whole, called by us 'universe', a part limited in time and space. He experiences himself, his thoughts and feelings as something separated from the rest... a kind of optical delusion of his consciousness. This delusion is a kind of prison for us, restricting us to our personal desires and to affection for a few persons nearest to us. Our task must be to free ourselves from this prison by widening our circle of compassion to embrace all living creatures and the whole of nature in its beauty."

[Brickbat]

Albert Einstein -

"Science without religion is lame. Religion without science is blind."

[SamuraixJack]

You see what you want to see in those stories. Those stories are just that, stories made up by primitive people(yes, there is no god, yes no divine being wrote the fucking bible) to explain things because they had no idea how things worked. I don't care how many spiritual experiences you have, or how many cryptic passages you type in this thread, it will forever remain nonsense to people that do understand what it is. Pure fantasy that provides the necessary blindfold for the wishful thinking millions indulge in daily.

HL 1. Then your position( as well as those who take your position) cant possibly be seen as an honest observation, and cant be taken as such.

2. Believing in some infinite isnt wishful thinking, because science proves that there are things that are infinite.

[SamuraixJack]

how long have i been away???

[FranklinsTower]

kingofpancrease wrote---

You see what you want to see in those stories. Those stories are just that, stories made up by primitive people(yes, there is no god, yes no divine being wrote the fucking bible) to explain things because they had no idea how things worked. I don't care how many spiritual experiences you have, or how many cryptic passages you type in this thread, it will forever remain nonsense to people that do understand what it is. Pure fantasy that provides the necessary blindfold for the wishful thinking millions indulge in daily.[/quote]


FranklinsTower replied--

I don't think you have really read the stories with an open mind. When it comes to explaining physical reality then of course those stories fall short. But when it comes to navigating transformation in Gods power they contain endless wisdom and beauty.

I am sorry that my posts seem cryptic to you. If you would like I am willing to explain them in a way that makes better sense. You could ask specific question and I would try to give non cryptic answers.

I can tell you this. God is just a word given to the experience of the sacred. Anything that is said about God is more of a starting point than a definition. The transformation that spirituality at its best can produce is radical, far reaching and profound. This is a matter of human experience and knowledge.

No one can take the transformation away from me that I have experienced and that I am still experiencing. And no branch of science can offer it or even explain it yet. As far as I am concerned the constant touting of a lack of proof of God only confirms the present limitations of science, it says little to me of religion.

I happen to be a fan of the sciences and I think they will evolve and develop the capacities to confirm spiritual realities one day.

[FranklinsTower]

There are a whole lot of people that are going to hell. Are you really sorry that you had sex outside of marriage?

If you look at the Christian religion, and it's rule set, then 99% of the people that ever lived will end up in hell. Even FranklinsTower.

You would be right if Christianity was based on a rule set. I dont think that it is. The whole point of the Christian message is that there are not enough good deeds that can be done to enter into infinity and that everyone falls short of perfect goodness. The promise of chistianity, the promise of Jesus is that we can enter into a relationship with God ie infinite power and goodness, and that through participaqtion in that power we can be lifted up and made more like it.

This process is called "deification" the process by which we enter the same state of being as God by participating in Gods life.
It is a feminine receptive process, you have to soften yourself and receive it and allow it. You can not make it happen.

Also, I am not a Catholic but did you know that it is the present official position of the Catholic church that everyone who would accept Jesus as savior if they really knew for sure that he was savior is saved?

I am sorry if anyone has been exposed to more arrogant and exclusive form of Christianity than this.

[detfilteg]

There are a whole lot of people that are going to hell. Are you really sorry that you had sex outside of marriage?

If you look at the Christian religion, and it's rule set, then 99% of the people that ever lived will end up in hell. Even FranklinsTower.

You would be right if Christianity was based on a rule set. I dont think that it is. The whole point of the Christian message is that there are not enough good deeds that can be done to enter into infinity and that everyone falls short of perfect goodness. The promise of chistianity, the promise of Jesus is that we can enter into a relationship with God ie infinite power and goodness, and that through participaqtion in that power we can be lifted up and made more like it.

This process is called "deification" the process by which we enter the same state of being as God by participating in Gods life.
It is a feminine receptive process, you have to soften yourself and receive it and allow it. You can not make it happen.

Also, I am not a Catholic but did you know that it is the present official position of the Catholic church that everyone who would accept Jesus as savior if they really knew for sure that he was savior is saved?

I am sorry if anyone has been exposed to more arrogant and exclusive form of Christianity than this.

So the ten commandments don't mean anything as long as I ask for forgiveness? Sweet. I'm going to go kill people now, and ask for forgiveness later.

[FranklinsTower]

There are a whole lot of people that are going to hell. Are you really sorry that you had sex outside of marriage?

If you look at the Christian religion, and it's rule set, then 99% of the people that ever lived will end up in hell. Even FranklinsTower.

You would be right if Christianity was based on a rule set. I dont think that it is. The whole point of the Christian message is that there are not enough good deeds that can be done to enter into infinity and that everyone falls short of perfect goodness. The promise of chistianity, the promise of Jesus is that we can enter into a relationship with God ie infinite power and goodness, and that through participaqtion in that power we can be lifted up and made more like it.

This process is called "deification" the process by which we enter the same state of being as God by participating in Gods life.
It is a feminine receptive process, you have to soften yourself and receive it and allow it. You can not make it happen.

Also, I am not a Catholic but did you know that it is the present official position of the Catholic church that everyone who would accept Jesus as savior if they really knew for sure that he was savior is saved?

I am sorry if anyone has been exposed to more arrogant and exclusive form of Christianity than this.

So the ten commandments don't mean anything as long as I ask for forgiveness? Sweet. I'm going to go kill people now, and ask for forgiveness later.

They still mean something its just that they take a back seat to actually having Gods power living in you. this power becomes the means by which we enter into heaven. It is the power to live in heaven. Even more properly it is heaven.

This power of God lives inside the individual and it is different for each individual how it "trains you" no one can live the ten commandments perfectly and there are a lot more moral guidelines than just those ten. Grace makes it possible to continue to live in Gods power as we allow it to raise us up and make it like itself.

Breaking one or more of the Ten commandments is probably a daily affair for 99% of humanity. This is where asking for forgiveness comes in but it is not a magic process, it is not about saying the right magic words. Asking forgiveness is only asking forgiveness if you mean it when you say it. This sincerity marks the path of true forgiveness and also i might add true transformation because Gods power will not change a person unless they really want to change. How could it be any other way when dealing with the human will and consciousness?

The commandments also serve as a bar that is set high to aim towards, kind of like in kung fu where you aim past the board in order to break it-- not at the board.

[detfilteg]

They still mean something its just that they take a back seat to actually having Gods power living in you. this power becomes the means by which we enter into heaven. It is the power to live in heaven. Even more properly it is heaven.

This power of God lives inside the individual and it is different for each individual how it "trains you" no one can live the ten commandments perfectly and there are a lot more moral guidelines than just those ten. Grace makes it possible to continue to live in Gods power as we allow it to raise us up and make it like itself.

Breaking one or more of the Ten commandments is probably a daily affair for 99% of humanity. This is where asking for forgiveness comes in but it is not a magic process, it is not about saying the right magic words. Asking forgiveness is only asking forgiveness if you mean it when you say it. This sincerity marks the path of true forgiveness and also i might add true transformation because Gods power will not change a person unless they really want to change. How could it be any other way when dealing with the human will and consciousness?

The commandments also serve as a bar that is set high to aim towards, kind of like in kung fu where you aim past the board in order to break it-- not at the board.

I prefer to live the life of the theif nailed to the cross beside jesus. Do as I wish until the day I die, and then ask forgiveness as a fail safe.

[FranklinsTower]

They still mean something its just that they take a back seat to actually having Gods power living in you. this power becomes the means by which we enter into heaven. It is the power to live in heaven. Even more properly it is heaven.

This power of God lives inside the individual and it is different for each individual how it "trains you" no one can live the ten commandments perfectly and there are a lot more moral guidelines than just those ten. Grace makes it possible to continue to live in Gods power as we allow it to raise us up and make it like itself.

Breaking one or more of the Ten commandments is probably a daily affair for 99% of humanity. This is where asking for forgiveness comes in but it is not a magic process, it is not about saying the right magic words. Asking forgiveness is only asking forgiveness if you mean it when you say it. This sincerity marks the path of true forgiveness and also i might add true transformation because Gods power will not change a person unless they really want to change. How could it be any other way when dealing with the human will and consciousness?

The commandments also serve as a bar that is set high to aim towards, kind of like in kung fu where you aim past the board in order to break it-- not at the board.

I prefer to live the life of the theif nailed to the cross beside jesus. Do as I wish until the day I die, and then ask forgiveness as a fail safe.

Well you wont get any argument from me. I was that guy too only I couldn't keep it up, I was driven to spirituality by my own self created suffering-- not virtue.