irishmike357 wrote:counterstrike wrote:Not really sure I agree. Shields has a lame and very weak TD. It's effectively, the traditional single leg BJJ takedown which is laughably ineffective against anyone with a measure of TDD.
So his 26 wins were not due to his being able to take down his opponents, including Dan Henderson? I would say that Henderson has some pretty dam good TDD.
Hendo is a greco-roman style wrestler, which is a much different from free-style wrestling, which is what GSP practices. Greco roman is all about grappling in close; dirty boxing, etc, and TDs are usually done in close, as with double underhooks. This is because Greco Roman wrestling doesn't use an opponent's legs for defense or offense. It doesn't allow any holds below the waist. As a result, greco-roman style wrestlers just don't learn how to do TD shots at someone's legs. You take someone down in close, with a throw; and you defend like that.
Free style, or collegiate wrestling, is a lot different. It incorporates much more powerful TD shots, and TD defense, because opponents attack your legs (for a TD) and you can attack your opponent that way, and thus, also forces wrestlers to learn how to do powerful sprawls to defend against TDs.
I actually don't think Hendo has all that great TD defense; he's good at dirty boxing and grappling in close, as his style of wrestling dictates; but rarely sprawls and his TD defense is nowhere near GSP's. Thus, Shields couldn't take down GSP; it wasn't even close. But Shields took down Hendo.
irishmike357 wrote:counterstrike wrote:Ellenberger looked good, but honestly, I wasn't that impressed. He punches hard, yes, probably harder than GSP, but it wasn't a punch that felled Shields, but a nice knee to the head. He just exposed Shields' weak takedowns and even weaker striking.
So a guy that JUST went 5 rounds with GSP gets completely destroyed in under a minute and is the first time he was stopped in 11 years and you are not impressed? What would impress you?
I think Ellenberger is a bad matchup for shields. Good TD defense and hard striking. He came out aggressive, landed a few good strikes, and Jake made some strategic mistakes, and seemed a little off. To be more impressed, I'd want to see him against more top 10 competition. The only guy he's faced with any reputation other than Shields was Condit, and he lost. So... I'm going to hold off the Jake Ellenberger War Wagon'ing for a few more fights.
irishmike357 wrote:counterstrike wrote:People who think Ellenberger could beat GSP, should put the breaks on that proposition right now. I think Ellenberger fought Shields with more aggression and reckless abandon than GSP-- hence the early stoppage-- but GSP is so tough to beat for the very reason he is so strategic and sticks to whatever plan he decides, and does not go in there with uncapped aggression.
They are obviously different styles, saying GSP is less aggressive than Ellenberger is not a reason GSP would win lmao. GSP is obviously the best WW in the world, but he is not unbeatable; that is the proposition that should stop right now.
I definitely don't think GSP is unbeatable. I just think Ellenberger, as I said above, was a bad match up, fight style wise, for Shields. I'm happy to be proven wrong. I want to see more from Ellenberger, that's all.